12 year olds fighting in a cage?

This topic contains 0 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  Chad Moechnig 1 year, 8 months ago.

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    Chad Moechnig
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    Rox21
    Post subject: 12 year olds fighting in a cage? PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:02 pm
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    A friend found this on sherdog or something…

    …I dunno, it bothers me. A lot. I felt a little better when I heard a guy say “he can’t hit you in the head” (while on the ground) but it just feels wrong. They’re GOOD, like they know skills! And I know little kids train, but I just feel so weird about seeing little kids hitting each other because I really feel that although they know what they’re doing, they don’t REALLY get it?

    blah 😥

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    Executioner
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:31 pm

    Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 1:48 pm
    Posts: 444
    Location: Netherlands
    They should wait a while, when they’re 16-18 years..
    Damn, I was bit shocked..
    But hey if you compare it the thaiboxers in Thailand that start in the ring when they’re 4 or 5 years old!
    Also seen the footage and that’s really off limits…
    But that’s the thai culture!

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:33 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
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    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    On this one I don’t have any problem with it.

    It is well supervised with 2 refs…and, the time and dedication to training no doubt keeps them out of unsupervised neighborhood scraps (and worse) trouble they would get into anyway. I started at 9 and got more injuries than playing Pop Warner football.

    RA

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    scarce
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:04 pm
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    Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:31 pm
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    good video…

    the only way to get super stars..

    is to start them young……

    the lil one in the black shirt..

    persistent..

    hung on to that leg like it was his…

    he gets a grade of a+……good job…..

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    Martial Arts Fan
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:39 pm

    Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:45 pm
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    Location: Canada
    I don’t have a problem as long as the kids are doing well in school and getting good grades in school. Plus it has to be safe. The kids need to be taught to tap early or else the referee needs to stop the fight early. You don’t want young kids having joint injuries and stuff like that. The heel hook in the video is a bit worrisome, but it looks like nobody got injured. Southern California Pankration rules do not allow strikes to the head for adults, so I’m sure they don’t allow it for kids either. It’s an amateur MMA organization.

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    Martial Arts Fan
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:46 pm

    Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:45 pm
    Posts: 17
    Location: Canada
    Still, whether adults or kids, MMA, BJJ or submission grappling torunaments are not for everybody. As much as I like the skills involved in fighting I would never enter a tournament because there’s no way I’d go for an arm bar or leg lock on somebody knowing fully well I could injure that person’s joint. But that’s just me, I have incredible respect for everybody that competes and doesn’t share my views.

    The only thing that scares me is knock-outs. I really worry about the fighter’s health and possibility of even the slightest damage to the brain due to the concussion caused by the knock-out. And that’s the only reason why I would like bare-knuckle MMA to make a comeback. Without the taping and the glove protection the hands are not nearly as dangerous and it is very difficult if not impossible to knock somebody out. As a matter of fact you have to be very careful if you strike the head because your chances of breaking your hand are pretty good.

    In this case under the amateur pankration rules the kids can not hit to the head so knock-outs are not an issue at all.

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    boxingfan053
    Post subject: at least it is a gymPostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:49 am

    Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:18 pm
    Posts: 3
    Location: chicago il
    At least the fight is taking place in a gym and not a backyard where they may hurt each other worse. I feel you will see younger and younger people compete, as you can look at womens ice skating and tennis for examples.

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    dl_angel
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:41 am

    Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:49 pm
    Posts: 150
    Location: Austin, Texas
    Quote:
    And I know little kids train, but I just feel so weird about seeing little kids hitting each other because I really feel that although they know what they’re doing, they don’t REALLY get it?

    I have to sort of agree about this- we recently got rid of the death penalty for children because they haven’t developed to the degree that they can understand consequences and such- yet we place them in the ring and I think when you fight you get a different idea about what people can handle if you hit them…. hitting the kid on the playground is very different from hitting a trained fighter. I know plenty of adults who fight who aren’t quite able to grasp that using the same power they would in a fight isn’t appropriate with people who haven’t trained- so I imagine most kids wouldn’t be able to understand that. So what if that kid goes and beats up some kid at school-throws a few too many punches… kills the kid?

    as an adult, I’ve had a lot of reactions to sparring and if I was a kid, exposed to it everyday, then I imagine that it would’ve changed the way i am. Someone attacks you, you know you can defend against it, and I think that you get the mindset of “if I don’t hit them, they’ll hit me” so you end up the first one to throw that punch, you’re in fight or flight mode- and you automatical register that fight is the appropriate action, and you’re learning one terrible way to deal with your problems. The younger martial artists I’ve met are- by far- less assertive, try to deal with things with their fists, and they’re caught up in stuff that got them into martial arts in the first place- gangs, drugs, etc. Although I think martial arts can be a positive influence, I think that intructors need to be SUPER aware of what’s going on in that kid’s life- if I was an instructor, that 12yr old that’s got his pant leg rolled up and his eyebrow notched is going to be signing an agreement to never use his martial arts for harm outside of the ring if he’s going to train with me… and I’m going to be talking to him every day, checking on how things are at home and school- I don’t think that boxing/kickboxing/mma gyms do this ‘checking up’ as much as tkd gyms do- anyone else have a different experience? Teaching that kid without those precautions may be setting that kid up to get in trouble.

    Ya know- I didn’t even know that this bothered me as much until I started writing. But I am thinking about the kids at my gym and thinking that I wouldn’t want my 10yr old acting like they do to solve problems. I just remember the 10 yr old at our gym who I’d made a joke to because she was all sore and talking about it, like, “Ah it’s cuz you’re so old”… and she decided it’d be funny to punch me in the stomach hard…we weren’t sparring, just sitting around… she does it to my instructor all the time, but I never realized how hard she does it because it’s sort of a big joke- I do it too- come in, pretend to throw a couple punches at my instructor and then he throws me on the floor- good fun, never hurt either of us. But I realized that she’s kinda thinking she can go about punching adults in the stomach every time she doesn’t like something they say- or even just for fun, particularly if they seem “cool” with her? I’m glad to see women and girls who are able and willing to protect themselves, but I think there’s gotta be a judgement call about when that stuff is appropriate and when you respect people, talk to them if something’s bothering you, etc. Can kids make that judgement call? I don’t know. I doubt it. We either need to setup some boundaries and limits for kids in MMA, boxing, and kickboxing or we could create some serious problems for ourselves- at least in America. Thailand isn’t America…. America has kids coming to school with guns to kill all their classmates and America has gangs that kids are getting involved in younger and younger (I work in a middle school and there are at least two kids on my 26 student caseload who are gang members… 2 of the girls are also possibly involved). From what I’ve heard about training in Thailand, kids would get a LOT more structure and discipline than they do in American gyms… those kids don’t have TIME to go shoot up their school because they’ve got to go train whenever they have free time.

    Ok hope this was somewhat coherant… caffeine hasn’t kicked in this morning yet.

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    Rox21
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:52 am
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    Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:49 pm
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    Wow, amazing comment.

    I like how dl_angel worded that response. Likewhen I watched a movie as a kid I had a totally different perspective when I was watching it again as an adult. I mean, I GOT IT when I was a kid, but I didn’t have the worldly knowledge to compare it to other things like I do with my adult experience.

    man, you certainly have some great points.

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    greatlaughter
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:51 am
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    Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:15 pm
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    Location: Petaluma, CA
    I think the discipline can play a roll in these MMA trained kids. Aside from being more effective, what’s the difference in a child training and competeing in karate or muay thai or judo or jiu-jitsu? I thought this fild would bother me but it didn’t. a venue that is harmful would bother me whether it was adults, women, children, whatever…but this looked ok. i train with a 12 year old. he started when he was 10, now he’s awesome enough to train with the adult class and kick our butts sometimes. he and his older brother train everyday. they don’t get in trouble b/c they don’t have anything to prove. plus they know what they learn can kill someone and the learn to respect that everyday in training.

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    Martial Arts Fan
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:59 am

    Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:45 pm
    Posts: 17
    Location: Canada
    And the age when you need martial arts the most is when you are a kid. Most of the bullying happens at a young age. So martial arts instills confidence in the kids. In addition if you have self-confidence you will be less likely to get into fights (at least from my own experience when I was a kid) and be able to stop bullies without having to get into a physical fight.

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    FightingFury44
    Post subject: looke like reg. sparringPostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:08 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:16 am
    Posts: 325
    Location: Texas
    Those two kids looked decent in the cage for the age level they are at. People in the Ma work should see that competition like this. It looks just like any regular type sparring in class . And in the cage same rules apply just no hitting in the face and all the other hard core moves othe mma people use. Simply a good sparring match in my eyes and nice holds they locked on to each other. well supervisied and no harm no foul.

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:28 am

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    If anything, the basic fundamentals of Martial Arts should only teach these kids more discipline and self control. I know personally it turned me around from being a bully to protecting other kids from bullies. Self defense training for youngsters (boys or girls) is extremely beneficial for mind, spirit, and body awareness as well as the combat aspect.

    Sure there may be a few exceptions, but by and large it’s the kids sitting around playing video games on drugs and who don’t know how to defend themselves that end up exploding into shooting sprees at schools.

    In fact, if Martial Arts were mandatory and started at an early age I think there would be *far* less gun and gang activity in our schools…it takes the kids off the streets and gets them into the gym.

    RA

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    dl_angel
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:50 am

    Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:49 pm
    Posts: 150
    Location: Austin, Texas
    Quote:
    the basic fundamentals of Martial Arts should only teach these kids more discipline and self control

    Explain this in relation to Muay Thai and Boxing gyms… the ones around me don’t seem to have any focus on discipline or self control. Not sure if it’s different in other areas. I’m not sure how it’s built into the sport, except for having to come every day to train.

    And for kids, they don’t get the same discipline that adults need because there’s less competition- our kids don’t run 3miles/day like the adults are expected to, for example. Heck, the kids can’t/don’t do most of our workout- can only keep some of them interested when they’re hitting something… they hate abs, legs, arms, jump roping. It may just be my gym though that’s different- we only have maybe 5 kids in boxing/kickboxing so there isn’t anything setup for them. And my instructor won’t babysit and force them to do stuff.

    I’m curious how other gyms work this with kids who train.

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:47 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    Sure, all gyms are different, but most responsible instructors would at least teach the basic “where and when’s” it’s appropriate for self defense and fighting in terms of real-life application. If they don’t they are being negligent that area.

    If you’re really concerned it would be great to arrange a little clinic for those at your dojo. Kids tend to look up to accomplished fighters and fight instructors even more than their school teachers or parents.

    And they should be encouraged and motivated to stretch and exercise to avoid injuries…proper conditioning is a vital part of any form of fighting. That’s the same problem with our schools in the US…they feed them garbage for lunch and most phys ed programs are pathetic at best.

    If an instructor is not willing to at least do the basics they should only be teaching adults and not kids…and in that case the onus is not on the kids but on the instructor.

    But (in general) I think Martial Arts is one of the greatest things for young kids to get involved in.
    Even Rickson, the best of the Gracie fight clan, started competing even much younger than 12 at around 6 years old.

    RA

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    Martial Arts Fan
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:32 pm

    Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:45 pm
    Posts: 17
    Location: Canada
    Quote:
    Explain this in relation to Muay Thai and Boxing gyms… the ones around me don’t seem to have any focus on discipline or self control. Not sure if it’s different in other areas. I’m not sure how it’s built into the sport, except for having to come every day to train.

    If the gym is bad, it’s bad for both adults and kids. The failure of some boxing and muay thai gyms is a separate issue from teaching kids martial arts. Beside, to compete in those pankration events I wouldn’t train at a boxing or muay thai gym. Boxing and muay thai include head shots that are not allowed in those amateur pankration events. And if we are talking boxing and muay thai, then I don’t believe 12 year olds should be training those sports if they involve contact to the head.

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:35 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    Not necessarily, many competition gyms are excellent for adult fighters, but as dl mentioned, they might not have time to work with or babysit kids…which is fine, but in that case I agree kids probably shouldn’t be in those particular gyms.

    As far as striking, young kids start boxing even at the boys/girls clubs and play in jr football leagues (going helmet to helmet at full sprint speed) which is far more dangerous than MMA.

    RA

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