Respect for women fighters

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    Chad Moechnig
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    VooDooQueen
    Post subject: respect for women fightersPostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:10 am

    Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:54 am
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    Location: colorado springs
    I have been surfing the web for information about women fighters. You see, I took up Shao Lin Kempo last year when my husband went to Iraq. I have discovered a love of fighting. I am the only woman at my dojo yet, I do have the respect of all of the men I spar. They dont take it easy on me, they dont look at me like I am a woman, but a sparring partner..plain and simple. During my surfing, I have found so many places where women are exploited by men simply because they like to watch “chicks fight”. grrr…. Anyhow, alot of that has to do with the women who allow themselves to be exploited. It is nice to find that there are women who are fighting just for the love of it. I have read some of the posts here and it seems like you ladies are worthy of respect.

    I am an ok fighter…given my age…34..not that that is old, but a bit late to take up martial arts…lol I have competed in a few tournaments and placed third. I fight a bit aggressively for karate and was told I should just take up boxing. I love karate though..but I wasnt allowed to take it up as a girl…since lil girls didnt do that kind of thing. There arent alot of women that fight around here in Colorado Springs, either.
    Well..I have to get on some housework..I have karate tonight…Hope to hear from all of you
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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:55 am

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
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    Location: Louisville, KY
    Muay Thai…that is my suggestion. Good luck finding a school, but that if you find one, that would be best for you.

    Good post!
    The “chick fight” sites take away the respectability and legitimacy of female fighters. They portray an image that associates female fighting with smile. People like to act like there is no harm done, but there simply is. The objectification of women is to blame only on these websites. It is a society-wide problem that has existed way before the internet. However, today, those fetish websites make matters worse for women who are trying to break away from the social stereotypes.

    Furthermore, as a guy who is supportive of female fighting sports, it is difficult for me to separate myself from those “other guys” who post here occassionally that are just looking for girls in bikinis who are pretending to fight or wrestle.

    For the guys…Imagine if you did a search on Mixed Martial Arts or the Ultimate Fighting Championship and all that popped up was Pro-Wrasslin websites. That would drive you nuts, right?
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    VooDooQueen
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:44 pm

    Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:54 am
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    Location: colorado springs
    Wrasslin..hehe…yehaw…let see dim fellers in some gstrings and covered in oil…That would be a n ice turn of the tables..dont you think? hahaha
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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:17 pm

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
    Posts: 439
    Location: Louisville, KY
    haha exactly.

    Image if you tell people that you’re a fighter and they say “Oh yeah, I watch that stuff. You mean like The Rock? I go to all of those fightin shows!” And then imagine that EVERYONE thinks of pro wrasslin when you start talking to them about MMA fighting. So everytime you start talking about your fighting, it is mistaken for something entirely different.

    Then add in that pro-wrasslin involved baby oil and g-strings. You can bet that male MMA fighters would be complaining like a motherf&%^er!!!!

    …and rightfully so.
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    VooDooQueen
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:53 am

    Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:54 am
    Posts: 93
    Location: colorado springs
    Tell me about it! My husband told some of his soldiers about my last tournament….they came just to watch the women fight. They were expecting us in shorts and bra tops…no such luck! We were in gi’s and gear. They had never seen women fight like that before. In some small way, I think I earned some respect. One of the fights was a really good one…hd lots of aggression, judges and refs giving us warnings…it drew a nice crowd. (I won it with a kick to her head..hehe…at five two she wasnt expecting me to be able to go that high..) Two of those soldiers are now going be training partners with me. One used to wrestle and the other was a boxer. One guy told me that he was impressed. He thought it was going to be a catfight, but if he didnt know better, the women could have passed for men in technique and power. That meant alot to me.

    Anyhow…Knockout…take care…

    And you are right..those men would complain like lil sissies. But I would be the one sitting back laughing …and say…doesnt feel so nice..does it?
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    dl_angel
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:07 am

    Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:49 pm
    Posts: 150
    Location: Austin, Texas
    I worry too about the men thinking that women like to get hit too. Not sure if that’s a problem, but there’s big difference to me from getting hit sparring vs. some jerk thinking he’s got the right to punch me- either for smile pleasure or because he’s mad.

    I sort of wonder if it can condone negative behaviors that maybe some of these men do already- like “These girls like to get hit so it’s okay for me to go around beating up on my wife.”

    Just a thought.
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    VooDooQueen
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:54 am

    Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:54 am
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    Location: colorado springs
    Good point….but if you know how to fight and your man hits you..then TKO his butt and leave. No one should be with anyone with that type of mentality. It isnt that one likes to get hit..no one does…just the fun of fighting as a game ..like chess but physical. Its just a game of matching your opponent’s move and winning.

    Any man with the mentality that he can hit a girl because she apparently likes to be hit since she fights is definately a few tampons shy of a multipack. Of course, if a man knows a woman can defend herself, he will be less likely to attack her. It is all about domination and control. Abusive men feed on weakness…you have no weakness, they cant feed off it. I know….I used to live with a man like that. He does not dare touch me now. A girl just has to have an upperhand …oh..and a good uppercut…hehe
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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:58 am

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
    Posts: 439
    Location: Louisville, KY
    really?

    I’ve never thought about that dl_angel.
    I’ve never heard of anything like that from other guys.

    The most common thing I’ve heard as a complaint to watching women fighting is that they don’t like seeing women get hit. Personally, I think that is ridiculous, but I guess when they see two women fighting, they imagine their mother or their sister in the ring.

    It’s difficult to consider a freak who will use female fighting as an excuse to hit his wife. My mind just doesn’t stretch that far. It’s difficult for me to imagine someone using that rationale.
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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:05 am

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
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    Location: Louisville, KY
    ” is definately a few tampons shy of a multipack.”

    LOL

    “Abusive men feed on weakness”

    Truer words were never spoken.
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    dl_angel
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:43 am

    Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:49 pm
    Posts: 150
    Location: Austin, Texas
    Yeh was just wondering about it.

    The biggest jerk I’ve known was one of those into watching chicks fight and that sort of thing… I just found that the more he watched violent stuff, the more he tried to sneak a little bit of violence into all his relationships… with friends, with me. Not necessarily girls fighting either- just fighting in general. They start playing Fight Club and such- he tested the water with me a couple times and hit me and he got hit back hard. He stuck to beating up on his friends after that. So maybe I’m thinking of other guys like him. I was just thinking that some people have minds that try as hard as possible to condone negative behavior. But either way, it’s too bad that we can’t screen people at the door to these events because I feel like this is a sport, not cheap smile. And I don’t want some guy at home enjoying himself in front of the tv, watching a couple girls fight. Particularly not if one of those girls was me. Ew.
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    VooDooQueen
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 7:33 am

    Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:54 am
    Posts: 93
    Location: colorado springs
    dl_angel,

    it has been proven in psychological studies that men who read..and i use t that word REALLY loosely..smile, they tend to begin to dehumanize and demoralize women. i am not a “feminazi” but totally against smile. yes, some men do get off on watching women fight because the abuse turns them on. they are probably men who had been abused or subjected to watching their own mothers being abused as children. i dont pity them, for i am an abuse survivor…and i dont beat my children or like getting hit. yes..ironic i like fighitng..but it is a major stress reliever for me. (hubby brought the iraqi war home with him) Anyhow…as far as that guy you mentioned…darlin..I hope you hit him more than once.

    Not all men like watching women fight so they can get off..there are men who like to watch it simply because they are amazed at well they do it.
    ya know…we should meet up on yahell and chat sometimes…
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    WarriorHeartGrrl
    Post subject: respect for women fightersPostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:07 am

    Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:52 pm
    Posts: 18
    Location: Northern Vermont
    This whole topic reminds me of an episode of Seinfeld, where Elaine asks Jerry what it is about a cat fight that guys love so much, to which he replies something to the effect of “BEcasue, there’s a chance they might kiss” *smirks* So of course, it always comes back to smile…..

    It’s really to bad that women have to fight through all of this “Glamerous Ladies of Wrestling” crap in order to be taken seriously….
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    dl_angel
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:30 am

    Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:49 pm
    Posts: 150
    Location: Austin, Texas
    Haha well there’s one way to get more publicity for women in MMA! We can do like all the female musicians/movie stars do now and make out after a fight… that’d be great. <laughs>

    PS- I am SO joking.
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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:37 am

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
    Posts: 439
    Location: Louisville, KY
    lol
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    VooDooQueen
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:06 pm

    Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:54 am
    Posts: 93
    Location: colorado springs
    Makeout after fighting? Man..do you know how tired I would be on Thurdsay nights? I am the only woman at my dojo ..the only one who fights…so I would be making out with the men..that is 8 men..whoa…that wears me out just thinking bout it.

    haha
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    dl_angel
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:22 am

    Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:49 pm
    Posts: 150
    Location: Austin, Texas
    lol

    how bout explaining it to the significant others?

    “But sweety, it’s for the GOOD OF THE SPORT!”
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    VooDooQueen
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:42 am

    Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:54 am
    Posts: 93
    Location: colorado springs
    Or…BUt honey…its all a part of the training process. lol
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    scarce
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:02 am
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    ,,,,,you should mix up……kenpo karate with muay thai….look up keith hackney…..i liked his stand up……..back in the day……..
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    Rick Alexio
    Post subject: :PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:46 am

    Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:07 pm
    Posts: 17
    Hilarious stuff….yeah, right… like “MMA Girls Gone Wild”…

    On a more serious note, there is a huge dichotomy involved with this issue. While I think it’s important to embrace your womanhood and beauty this should not detract from respect for fighting ability…it’s about striking a ‘balance’ between the two, and how it’s done.

    I think Erin does a nice job of balancing the two, even on her site she’s not afraid to celebrate that she’s still a woman, who honors her femaleness, yet at the same time demonstrates excellent fighting ability. I think this balance is very empowering for women and important for the marketing/gorwth of the sport.

    And this works both ways. The majority of the women who come to see Frank Shamrock or Tito aren’t there for the technical aspects of their fighting skills, many are either attracted to them and/or the “gladiator” action…it’s part of human nature. And sure, if there are some cute women involved in MMA (just like anywhere else) plenty of guys (and girls) may find them attractive, but again, this should not take away from respect for their ability as fighters.
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    VooDooQueen
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:11 am

    Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:54 am
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    Location: colorado springs
    Well, as far as femaleness goes…I look like lil miss priss…right down to the pretty lil nails and pedicure. I tend to be underestimated by my opponents all the time …till they get that kick to the side of their head. mwuahahahahaaha. I have a picture on my yahoo profile if you would like to see how unintmidating I appear. Then, you tell me if I am keeping in touch with my female side. hehe Oh, and just for a bit of history…there were Gladiatrix in ancient Rome and some remains of female warriors dating back to the Roman times found in England. The mother of England..as she is called…Bodacia (sure I didnt spell it right) was one heck of a fighter as was most of her followers..also female. It is possible to hold your own and still be able to wear heels, a skirt and don the birghtest reddest lipstick on the market….only..you do tend to break a nail here and there.
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    RickAlexio
    Post subject: :PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:36 am

    Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:13 am
    Posts: 5
    Location: West Coast
    Well, as far as femaleness goes…I look like lil miss priss…right down to the pretty lil nails and pedicure. I tend to be underestimated by my opponents all the time …till they get that kick to the side of their head. mwuahahahahaaha. I have a picture on my yahoo profile if you would like to see how unintmidating I appear. Then, you tell me if I am keeping in touch with my female side. hehe

    lol Well, could not locate your id so I’ll just have to take your word on it. But perhaps you should consider toning the femaleness down a bit there, missy! Lord knows you can’t be an attractive female and still gain respect as a fighter. (tongue-in-cheek)

    Kidding aside, you bring up some interesting points:

    Oh, and just for a bit of history…there were Gladiatrix in ancient Rome and some remains of female warriors dating back to the Roman times found in England. The mother of England..as she is called…Bodacia (sure I didnt spell it right) was one heck of a fighter as was most of her followers..also female.

    Indeed. In fact, there were female warriors long before we bagan to record time. Both men and women were competing for food, mates, and territory. This points to why many humans are attracted to combat – a dominant warrior was/is deemed more attractive (amongst other qualities) for mating and reproduction.

    Now in modern times athletic competition (combat sport) is an extension of this. “Pankration” in early Greek times was basically fighting with little or no rules..then introduced into the ancient Olympics it became the most popular event in the games.

    It is possible to hold your own and still be able to wear heels, a skirt and don the birghtest reddest lipstick on the market….only..you do tend to break a nail here and there.

    lol Sounds like a good cosmetics endorsement …”yeah, she did break a nail striking her opponent out to win the championship but at least her Revlon held tight.”
    [/i]
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    VooDooQueen
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:29 pm

    Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:54 am
    Posts: 93
    Location: colorado springs
    Actually, Max Factor is my lipstick of choice..better staying power..plus..my drag queen friend swears by it. lol
    As far as warriors being more attractive..yes..that is true..not so much look wise..but strength and power. It is well known that the gladiators of ancient Rome were viewed as smile symbols even though they were slaves. It is kind of like some of us women…ahem..liking men in uniform. (hubby is ex marine now active army) lol. Of course, me being a veteran myself..I had to “stay with my own kind” haha. People who have never served tend to sometimes find it hard to relate to those who have served. The military does brainwash you a bit.
    Hmm…I am finding my mind wandering to men in leather mini-skirts and bronze breast plates…woohooo…men in skirts….now that should be in the MMA too. hahahahahaha
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    dl_angel
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 5:21 pm

    Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:49 pm
    Posts: 150
    Location: Austin, Texas
    I think the more attractive thing is so true. For women, working out lets you look in shape, without ordering half a salad whenever the guy takes you out to dinner. It also keeps you pretty mentally healthy (lowers rates of depression, etc.). I think we just LOOK healthier too- skin, hair, all that good stuff is affected by working out and eating right.

    Also, I think confidence- obviously an attractive feature to most healthy guys- is a additional side benefit of working out, particularly fighting.

    When it comes down to it though- I probably don’t look so attractive at the gym… but it’s all cool. 🙂
    Hmmm….
    …Men in uniforms…. 😈 …my boyfriend is Navy Reserves and works in a hospital. The trick is getting them to wear the uniform around you without tipping them off that you have a thing for men in uniform. 😉
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    RickAlexio
    Post subject: ;PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:58 pm

    Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:13 am
    Posts: 5
    Location: West Coast
    Hmm…I am finding my mind wandering to men in leather mini-skirts and bronze breast plates…woohooo…men in skirts….now that should be in the MMA too. hahahahahaha

    ahhhhaha very cute!

    Actually, I recall that already being done in boxing by Camacho and several others so you may be right, MMA might not be far off…like it’s not enough wearing spandex shorts with a “PRIDE” logo on your ass! 😛

    And a tuff military wife, eh? Very cool…have a lot of buddies out at 29, unfortunately 7 are never coming home but you know that drill. Hope the hubby is back on home turf…

    I think the more attractive thing is so true. For women, working out lets you look in shape, without ordering half a salad whenever the guy takes you out to dinner. It also keeps you pretty mentally healthy (lowers rates of depression, etc.). I think we just LOOK healthier too- skin, hair, all that good stuff is affected by working out and eating right. Also, I think confidence- obviously an attractive feature to most healthy guys- is a additional side benefit of working out, particularly fighting.

    Some nice calls here, dl…I think being in condition is attractive in *many* ways other than just the objective benefit. And again, it’s great for the marketing of the sport.

    I believe women’s MMA is only about a ‘major live pay-per-view event’ away from “blowing up”, and ideally you’d want all the women in top condition…and looking the part.

    [/i]
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    VooDooQueen
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:35 am

    Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:54 am
    Posts: 93
    Location: colorado springs
    Not sure if it is Camacho..but there was one dude I saw wearing a black and white silk form of the gladiator “mini”…it just looked totally gay. Joan/Jon was over and he said he even looked gay in it…haha. Pretty bad when a drag queen busts on ya. So brutal!
    Navy eh? I am ex Naxy..and I just love those 13 buttons on the crackerjacks…hahaha. When my husband was a Marine…well..Marine dress blues…need I say more? Now he is Army and it just isnt the same, but those DCU’s are ok. He still struts like a Marine.
    And being healthy is a big part of it…but it is hard to be taken seriously when you also take care of yourself like a girly-girl. It doesnt bug me too much..since as I have said before…they think I cant fight till I put my foot on their head. The guys at the dojo call me : Bulldog, Tank, Killer and Cannonball. So…perhaps I can fight..hehehe
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    dl_angel
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:58 am

    Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:49 pm
    Posts: 150
    Location: Austin, Texas
    Quote:
    it is hard to be taken seriously when you also take care of yourself like a girly-girl.
    That’s fine. Their mistake. 😈
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    Rick Alexio
    Post subject: ;PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:46 pm

    Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:07 pm
    Posts: 17
    Not sure if it is Camacho..but there was one dude I saw wearing a black and white silk form of the gladiator “mini”…it just looked totally gay. Joan/Jon was over and he said he even looked gay in it…haha. Pretty bad when a drag queen busts on ya. So brutal!

    lol.. sounds more like boxing’s “Clown Prince”… Jorge (Maromero) Paez….actually a pretty skilled and entertaining little fighter.

    And being healthy is a big part of it…but it is hard to be taken seriously when you also take care of yourself like a girly-girl. It doesnt bug me too much..since as I have said before…they think I cant fight till I put my foot on their head. The guys at the dojo call me : Bulldog, Tank, Killer and Cannonball. So…perhaps I can fight..hehehe

    Right on, so they underestimate your power based on your CF ‘cuteness factor’…well, maybe they should throw on a skirt and try to distract you…even things out a bit. 😉
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    VooDooQueen
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:57 pm

    Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:54 am
    Posts: 93
    Location: colorado springs
    Hmm…back to the men in leather mini’s …gladiator style…hehehe. Bronze breast plates…battle worn helmets..um..hey I think I am gonna go watch Russel Crowe….ya know ..that Gladiator flick…no need for sound though…muwahahahahahaha.
    Good fighter or not…takes kahunas to wear a silky skirt like that
    angela
    (cuteness factor??) haha
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    RickAlexio
    Post subject: :PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:57 pm

    Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:13 am
    Posts: 5
    Location: West Coast
    Ok, grrl…now you’re officially the men’s skirt *freak of the week*..uh oh!

    And yeah, “cuteness factor” was that you with the glasses on yahoo? 😉
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    VooDooQueen
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:03 am

    Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:54 am
    Posts: 93
    Location: colorado springs
    Freak of the week, eh? I would like to thank the academy for this prestigious award…I am very proud …..hahahahaha
    and no…not me with the glasses on yahoo.. 😛 That was me dressed like Xena…hahaha
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