an attempt at top 10’s women MMA fighters

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    Chad Moechnig
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    tapoutuk
    Post subject: an attempt at top 10’s Post Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:52 pm

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    OK I’ve been doing this for a little while. Trying to put together a top 10 for the following weight divisions – 105, 115, 125, 135, 145lbs.

    I have placed people in the last weight category they competed at in general but some ladies fight across several weight divisions so I have tried my best to place them in one division. An example of this is Lisa Ward who has competed at 125 and 135 but is the 105 champ on FFF so I placed her in the 105 division.

    I have spent a good time going through Sherdog and other fight record sites putting peoples records together and making these lists – they are based on victories over other fighters in the list and similar opponents.

    I know everyone isn’t going to like them but they are only based on my workings and will probably need a few adjustments over time.

    105lbs
    Lisa Ward
    Miku Matsumoto
    Hisae Watanabe
    Satako Shinashi
    Mai Mai
    Masako Yoshida
    Naoko Ohmuro
    Ayumi ‘Edge’ Saito
    Fukuko Hamada
    Davina Maciel

    115lbs
    Michelli Tavares
    Yuka Tsuji
    Maiko ‘Ossan’ Ohkada
    Tevi Say
    Michelle Watterson

    125lbs
    Megumi Fuji
    Rosi smile
    Carina Damm
    Kanako Takashita
    Rin Nakai
    Kazue Matake
    Windy Tomimi
    Nadia Van Der Vel
    Dina Van Den Hooven
    Jessica Aguilar

    135lbs
    Tara La Rosa
    Amanda Buckner
    Shayna Bazler
    Roxanne Modaferri
    Julie Kedzie
    Hitomi Akano
    Ginelle Marquez-Lee
    Molly Helsel
    Tama Chan
    Keiko Tamai

    145lbs
    Marloes Coenen
    Kelly Kobald
    Laura D’Auguste
    Megumi Yabushita
    Christian Cyborg
    Vanessa Porto
    Gina Carano
    Jennifer Tate
    Tonya Evinger
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    Rosi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:07 am
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    interesting… 🙂

    Tsuji needs to be ranked above Taveres in the 115 list. Fuji should be ranked at both 115 and 125. As I mentioned on the other thread, Aguilar should probably be ranked at 115.

    Laura D’August is at 135, so are Vanessa Porto, Yabushita, Evinger. Kelly Kobald is now fighting at 135, although it’s a more recent move down so it makes sense to rank her at 145. Dina Van Den Hooven needs moving up from 125 to 135 as the lightest she fought was 60kgs.

    Takayo Hashi needs to be there somewhere, especially with her recent win over Akano. Not sure which weight you’d want to rank her at – probably 125 (she fights at 128 in smackgirl)

    That’ll do for a start…. I’m sure you’ll get lots of other comments too 🙂
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:30 am
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    def think there is some stuff we can use here. agree tsuji should be ranked above taveres…pretty much all rosi’s points, most of the 145’er belong in the 135’s but that’s why ranges were made up to 140 since that’s where also many top fights are taking place with one of the largest orgs elite xc. ok except carano is ranked *way* to high maybe you don’t get elite xc in the uk. 😆 just kiddin 😛 …but, she at least has to be ranked above julie or it would be silly. i think either a 140-150 or 145-155 division could be filled and hot tho. would love to see erin come back even better, faster and drop 10 lbs and make the top end of that division…then you would have erin, cris cyborg, marloes, jen case, elaina maxwell, michelle maher, jenn tate, prob julia budd when she debuts in few months…making it a *very* hot division, not to mention several who could move up to fight in both like kelly and gina…
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    koolpaw
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:54 am

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    realated thread for Pound 4 Pound Ranking

    Su Hi Ham has to be ranked at 105 Class, She has fought only 3 MMA fights yet and 2–1 , but her 2 Wins were against Watanabe and Edge, Ham is now ” new sensation from Korea” and gets a lot of attentions.

    As Josh has mentioned in another thread, Windy Tomomi can be ranked at 115, She has fought against Tsuji who is the champion of 52kg title of SmackGirl. Jessica Aguila also can be ranked at 115 according to Rosi`s notes. I would rank Hashi the new Champ of SG 58kg at 125, like in Top 5 now.

    I agree with ranking Gina carano, Kelly kobold at 145, however talking about Kelly, she fights at 135 bodogFIGHT now, but i want to give them time to adjust their weight . In Boxing and Judo they say Changing weight Class is very tough work, sometimes they need several months or years .

    in a same meaning, I put Kanako Takeshita at 125 on hold by now, She won the SG Grappling tournament at open weight class recently, and its her first official fight for this year. i dont know about the reason of her absence in 2007( mabe for some injury? Roxy must know it), not sure which weight class she will fight at again. Anyways whe she comes back to the ring, im sure she will be ranked high at any classes, Kanako was the winner of SmackGirl`s “Next Cinderella Tournament” just as like Akano was.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:05 am
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    sounds good, as mentioned before i think we can rank some in more than 1 division, kelly and gina are on that fence and could fall into both 130-140 and 145 divisions. but since they have only been fighting 135-140 girls now a fighter should be ranked first and foremost within the group of which the majority of their fights have been with. if we only rank kelly and gina at 145 it doesn’t factor in all their fights with tara, julie, tonya, rosi, ginele, adrienna, etc. gina has only fought 1 time above 145 moving up against elaina…but i suppose she could be ranked there as well since she will likely end up fighting there too. so ranking kelly and gina in both weight classes should solve that issue. there will likely be several other cases like this akano, lisa ward possibly…but, i think there needs to be some tangible criteria…a fighter should still have to have X number of fights at a given weight or some top 10 wins to be ranked in another division.

    having only 1 non-title or non-top ranked fight in a given division should not ‘usually’ be a case to rank a fighter there.

    oh, and laura still would have to be out for now due to inactivity but yes def a 135er not 145 if/when she comes back…

    koolpaw wrote:
    realated thread for Pound 4 Pound Ranking
    http://www.fightergirls.com

    Su Hi Ham has to be ranked at 105 Class, She has fought only 3 MMA fights yet and 2–1 , but her 2 Wins were against Watanabe and Edge, Ham is now ” new sensation from Korea” and gets a lot of attentions.

    As Josh has mentioned in another thread, Windy Tomomi can be ranked at 115, She has fought against Tsuji who is the champion of 52kg title of SmackGirl. Jessica Aguila also can be ranked at 115 according to Rosi`s notes. I would rank Hashi the new Champ of SG 58kg at 125, like in Top 5 now.

    I agree with ranking Gina carano, Kelly kobold at 145, however talking about Kelly, she fights at 135 bodogFIGHT now, but i want to give them time to adjust their weight . In Boxing and Judo they say Changing weight Class is very tough work, sometimes they need several months or years .

    in a same meaning, I put Kanako Takeshita at 125 on hold by now, She won the SG Grappling tournament at open weight class recently, and its her first official fight for this year. i dont know about the reason of her absence in 2007( mabe for some injury? Roxy must know it), not sure which weight class she will fight at again. Anyways whe she comes back to the ring, im sure she will be ranked high at any classes, Kanako was the winner of SmackGirl`s “Next Cinderella Tournament” just as like Akano was.
    Last edited by GFC on Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:57 am
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    so here is the latest revision combining with the previous lists:

    100-110lbs
    Lisa Ward
    Miku Matsumoto
    Hisae Watanabe
    Satako Shinashi
    Su Hi Ham
    Mai Mai
    Masako Yoshida
    Naoko Ohmuro
    Ayumi ‘Edge’ Saito
    Fukuko Hamada

    110-120lbs
    Megumi Fujii
    Yuka Tsuji
    Michelli Tavares
    Windy Tomomi
    Maiko ‘Ossan’ Ohkada
    Tevi Say
    Michelle Watterson

    120-130lbs
    Megumi Fuji
    Rosi smile
    Carina Damm
    Kanako Takashita
    Rin Nakai
    Kazue Matake
    Takayo Hashi
    Windy Tomimi
    Nadia Van Der Vel
    Jessica Aguilar

    130-140lbs
    Tara La Rosa
    Amanda Buckner
    Shayna Baszler
    Roxanne Modaferri
    Gina Carano
    Julie Kedzie
    Kelly Kobald
    Hitomi Akano
    Ginelle Marquez-Lee
    Molly Helsel

    140-150lbs
    Marloes Coenen
    Gina Carano
    Kelly Kobald
    Christian Cyborg
    Jen Case
    Michelle Maher
    Elaina Maxwell
    Jennifer Tate
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    tapoutuk
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:24 am

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    GFC thanks for updating.

    The only disagreement I have is that Kelly Kobald should be above Gina Carano as she has a much better record.

    Also the weight divisions were based on title categories Smackgirl, FFF and Deep all use 105 and 115. In the US BODOG and FFF use 125, 135, 145 divisions. The only show is Elite XC which uses 140 as it seems to suit a certain fighter and really isn’t a division used by any other show.

    So I would change the categories back to under 105, 106 – 115,
    116 – 125, 126 – 135 and 136 – 145.

    I thought this would be good for discussion and is always a good starting point that can be assessed by all the people and fighters who visit the site and make something that is near as possible to rankings.

    Also I used the rule of a fighter only being allowed in one weight like boxing and the male MMA charts are done as well.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:45 am
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    well the thing with kelly is this is ‘current’ rankings not all-time and she has 2 straight losses, gina has zero losses ever, one of kelly’s which was unanimous to julie who lost unanimous to gina, so i find it very hard to rank kelly above julie who she just lost to and certainly not julie above gina who she lost to. it’s the same situation as ham who has many fewer fights but should be ranked above who she beats ‘currently’…promoters are looking for the 135-140 matchups with gina and those are what is being proposed and discussed, porto, baszler, tara, debi was asking for a fight, etc so those are what are most practical right now for the rankings. now for an all-time rankings list sure i would put kelly ahead as well as a number of others including yabushita, but that is a separate issue.

    feel free to create an all-time rankings list…i think that would be cool and useful to clearing up some of the confusion between the two…

    also, i don’t want to favor bodog over elite xc, smack girl is at 128 also not 125…many other martial arts use ranges and this is not boxing so i don’t see any problem with it, at least for now until the divisions grow, more fights take place and things are standardized as was mentioned earlier…
    Last edited by GFC on Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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    Rikki
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:10 am
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    tapoutuk wrote:
    Also I used the rule of a fighter only being allowed in one weight like boxing and the male MMA charts are done as well.
    I haven’t seen any updated rankings since his last fight, but Dan Henderson is always listed in two weight classes (seeing as how he held the belt in both).

    I agree with GFC. I think that since the talent pool isn’t quite as large as the men’s, it’s okay to rank women in different classes provided guidelines are followed.
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    Rosi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:42 am
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    Quote:
    also, i don’t want to favor bodog over elite xc,
    Well, let’s be honest, Bodog is taking female MMA as a whole a lot more seriously right now. If you look at the number of female fights they’ve put on, and the number of fighters they’ve worked with there’s no comparison.

    Stick to the standard weight classes. I don’t really see the problem with ranking someone who cuts to 141 lbs as a 145 fighter. Even if she’s beating fighters from the 135 division, she’s beating them in a higher weight class, not at 135 – which isn’t the same thing at all.
    Last edited by Rosi on Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:07 am
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    rosi, with all due respect and love let’s not get into the whole gina thing again. we already brought her down just above julie and folks agreed at that point. 4 of her 5 opponents were below 145. when ‘solidly’ bigger fighters like marloes or jen case get tossed into the 135’s or rox beats marloes everything is cool, but when it’s “gina carano” the .1 fear alarms go off because she may have an extra layer of nail polish or her massive pectorals and bikini put her over…as we’ve stated and is clear she’s cutting bodyfat and is a solid 135-140er based on body composition which doesn’t change just for her unless she is not human. even at 141 it’s plain as day she is still smooth and not cut at some low bf%…one of the reasons she ranks that high is her win over you and how good you are and my respect for that. rox still beat marloes with an even greater weight difference…PLUS, marloes was much more experienced with ground than gina when she fought you, so that counts for a helluva lot….
    Last edited by GFC on Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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    Rosi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:27 am
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    Quote:
    when ‘solidly’ bigger fighters like marloes or jen case get tossed into the 135’s or rox beats marloes everything is cool, but when it’s “gina carano” the .1 fear alarms go off because she may have an extra layer of nail polish or her massive pectorals and bikini put her over..
    I have no idea what you are on about. All I’m saying is that fighters shouldn’t be ranked in weight categories they don’t actually fight in. No more, no less. I’ve pointed out a whole bunch of other fighters who were in categories I didn’t think they belonged in for whatever reason. And yes, if Coenen or Case had been ranked at 135 then yes, I would have pointed that out as well.

    As for my other point – I think the weight a fight takes place at can affect the outcome of the fight, and where possible this should be taken into account. I’m sure there are fights that I’d have a much better chance of winning at 125 than at 115, for example, not least because by the time I’ve chopped a leg off to make the lower weight I’d probably be quite easy to beat 😆 This is why I’m not ranked in the 115 division, see, and shouldn’t be even if I was to beat several other 115 lbers coming up to 125.

    This is all hypothetical of course. I make a point of not discussing my fights on the internet.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:54 am
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    well thanks for saying so that was one of my points. gina is mainly hurting herself more than anything by the severe way she’s been cutting…but, that doesn’t mean she is naturally a bigger fighter. i’m currently around 136-7lbs with approx 10% bf and if i ate lasagna to my hearts content for a couple months i could easily balloon up to 155+ but that certainly wouldn’t mean i was a 145lb fighter…then, if i waited until a few days from a fight to cut from 155 to 141 and nearly blew myself out doing it that wouldn’t mean i was a 145er either, simply that i ate my ass off and didn’t diet and cut properly.

    and there are no standardized weight classes so if gina is fighting 135ers at 140 or whatever catch weight they are still the same fighters fighting and need to be ranked, so that’s why the ranges are being used now until it all is completely standardized. and it is common to use ranges in martial arts even the ISCF uses them go have a look…

    also as rikki said rankings in more than one weight class are common and
    very deserving as long as the fighter has enough fights and/or holds a top ranking or title.

    and i’m not going to get into a bodog vs elite xc they are both doing fantastic things for women’s mma right now, as are several other orgs, let’s just work more towards them all coming together and improving for the common goal.

    and btw, what i meant about marloes and jen case is that even molly tossed them into her original 135er list (check the previous rankings thread) and neither you nor anyone else said a thing about it, until it’s gina with her .1 clothing allowance then it’s sound the alarms…
    Last edited by GFC on Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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    Rosi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:21 am
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    You’re entitled to your opinion, however wrong it might be. 😉

    Quote:
    and btw, what i meant about marloes and jen case is that even molly tossed them into her original 135er list (check the previous rankings thread) and neither you nor anyone else said a thing about it, until it’s gina with her .1 clothing allowance then it’s sound the alarms…
    I guess I missed that one. I will try to pay more attention in future, m’am

    Take a look at my first post on this thread, though.
    Last edited by Rosi on Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

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    Rikki
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:22 am
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    If you choose to fight at 145lbs, even though you could cut to 135, then you are a 145lb fighter. No one is going to rank you in the weight class that you COULD be in.
    Sure, with a better hold on her diet, Gina might actually make 140 for her weigh in – but she’s not a 135lb fighter. Could she be? Possibly. That’s not been put to the test, though because she chooses to fight at 140.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:39 am
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    rosi, believe whatever you like as well, neither of our opinions will change the reality. if gina chooses to fight at 145 then she’ll fight at 145 and need to make that weight…if she chooses to fight at 135 or 141.1 she’ll need to make those weights. but if she does and fights those women she should be ranked with those women, you also don’t get ranked based on walk around weight or if you make 141 then get ranked above 145…you get ranked with the fighters you are fighting and the scale weight of the fight. fact is gina was only above 145 for 1 fight. someone gets on the scale at 141 then they get on the scale at 141…you don’t then rank them at 145 cuz they may go eat a bag full of quarter pounders later, that’s silly…
    Last edited by GFC on Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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    Rosi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:48 am
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    Quote:
    and it is common to use ranges in martial arts even the ISCF uses them go have a look…
    Hang on a minute while I go and bang my head against a wall repeatedly….

    …there, that’s better.

    YES, the standard weights use a range! What that means is if you fight at 135 lbs, you can weigh in anywhere between 125.1 – 135. That’s how weight classes work.

    All you’re doing is insisting on using different weight classes from everyone else (except EliteXC).
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    Rosi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:57 am
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    Quote:
    you get ranked with the fighters you are fighting and the scale weight of the fight. fact is gina was only above 145 for 1 fight. someone gets on the scale at 141 then they get on the scale at 141…you don’t then rank them at 145 cuz they go eat a bag full of quarter pounders later, that’s silly…
    If Gina had been above 145 for most of her fights, then she wouldn’t be ranked AT 145, she’d be ranked AT 155. If you’re 141, then you’re between 135 and 145, so you’re a 145 fighter. You have to be UNDER your specified weight, not necessarily ON it.

    Who you’re fighting is irrelevant, I will never be ranked at 105 lbs, no matter who I beat, because I can’t make 105 lbs. Chuck Liddell is not ranked as a top 5 heavyweight, even though he beat Randy, because he doesn’t fight at heavyweight.

    What about this is so hard to understand?
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:58 am
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    first off, please don’t bang your head against the wall, repeatedly.. 😛

    again, there are no standardized weights…so, the 140 ‘would’ be the top of that division, your argument is that 135 should be, and that would be swell if it were possible…but, in order to encompass both elite xc and bodog there’s no alternative but to have the top of the range at 140 lbs…

    capiche’? 🙂
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:00 am
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    right, but that’s only *if* 155 is the top of that division…don’t worry i hear and understand your argument clearly, i just do not agree with it…sorry.

    Rosi wrote:
    Quote:
    you get ranked with the fighters you are fighting and the scale weight of the fight. fact is gina was only above 145 for 1 fight. someone gets on the scale at 141 then they get on the scale at 141…you don’t then rank them at 145 cuz they go eat a bag full of quarter pounders later, that’s silly…
    If Gina had been above 145 for most of her fights, then she wouldn’t be ranked AT 145, she’d be ranked AT 155. If you’re 141, then you’re between 135 and 145, so you’re a 145 fighter. You have to be UNDER your specified weight, not necessarily ON it.

    Who you’re fighting is irrelevant, I will never be ranked at 105 lbs, no matter who I beat, because I can’t make 105 lbs. Chuck Liddell is not ranked as a top 5 heavyweight, even though he beat Randy, because he doesn’t fight at heavyweight.

    What about this is so hard to understand?
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:04 am
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    *excuse me, and the catch weight “+.1” at whatever top end of each division whenever that is agreed upon…bs garbage splitting hairs blah blah blah
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    Rosi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:13 am
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    The weight classes that most (all except two of the big ones, and SG’s are pretty close) organizations use are 105, 115, 125, 135, 145… that’s as close to standard as it gets. And it fits in nicely with the weight classes the men use (125, 135, 145, 155…. )

    The reason I’m against doing it your way is because 140 is a different weight class from 135. They’re not interchangeable. Would LaRosa have beaten Kobald if the specified weight had been 140 lbs? Who knows, maybe, but maybe not. The weight can make a difference.

    Using a whole bunch of non-standard weight classes because of, basically, one organization who are using a catch weight for one particular fighter who they are trying to promote is a bit silly.

    The only reason I got involved is because I think getting some credible rankings together would be a step forward, and I’d like to see it done well. If it wasn’t for that, I’d have got out of the way and let you get on with butchering them a long time ago. Everyone’s always going to have different opinions about who should be where, and with any luck the debate will be ongoing… but in getting them set up in the first place I think it’s so important that the groundwork is done right so that they can evolve into a true picture of the women’s MMA scene. I think to do that, you have to use standard weight categories, otherwise it will always look like they’ve just been cobbled together.

    We’re clearly not going to agree… so why not see what other people think?
    Last edited by Rosi on Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

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    koolpaw
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:21 am

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    (an innocent cat sneaks in under the crossfire, takes a look at the list… pouts no name of Tama*chan…)

    =^.^=_?
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:35 am
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    well, i do agree with you that 135 should be the standard,ok…and that gina should get her weight down there. but a number of other top female fighters have fought on elite xc cards so i don’t agree it’s just about her, and as i mentioned there have been many many cases of 135ers moving up much higher so this is hardly unique to her situation…gina just happens to be popular and an extraordinary raw talent who has captured the public eye, it’s helping promote the sport for ALL the women raising the prize $$ and for all of us younger fighters coming up, plus she’s talked nothing but positively and given respect to all the other female fighters here that came before her. and it’s not like she can’t fight and this is happening, she has proven she is the real deal. are they making it 140 because of their top female fighter, maybe, maybe not…but it’s not a secret and anyone who fights knows what the deal is going in. gina’s 141 is the same as anyone elses 141. we can’t say what each fighter’s *exact* ideal is unless we start doing body composition tests, but we sure as hell know gina is not ripped at 140. like i said i agree it should be standardized across the board, but currently it is not.
    Last edited by GFC on Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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    Rosi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:02 am
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    Quote:
    well, i do agree with you that 135 should be the standard,ok…
    …so you’re going to do it that way then? 🙂
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:12 am
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    hehehe…whew, not sure if your subs are tougher inside or outside the ring. 😛

    ok, let’s do it…but, because of the common opponent issue i do believe if we put her in the 145 she should be just under marloes but still ahead of kelly. she has earned a 2nd place at 145…and, if she does start making weight ‘properly’ and does legitimately beat some others at 135 then we should consider her being ranked there as well, fair enough? 🙂
    Rosi wrote:
    Quote:
    well, i do agree with you that 135 should be the standard,ok…
    …so you’re going to do it that way then? 🙂
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    Rosi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:21 am
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    Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:26 am
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    I can live with that 🙂
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:35 am
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    🙂 ok then, there it is, the latest revision:
    105lbs
    Lisa Ward
    Miku Matsumoto
    Hisae Watanabe
    Satako Shinashi
    Su Hi Ham
    Mai Mai
    Masako Yoshida
    Naoko Ohmuro
    Ayumi ‘Edge’ Saito
    Fukuko Hamada

    115lbs
    Megumi Fujii
    Yuka Tsuji
    Michelli Tavares
    Windy Tomomi
    Maiko ‘Ossan’ Ohkada
    Tevi Say
    Michelle Watterson

    125lbs
    Megumi Fuji
    Rosi smile
    Carina Damm
    Kanako Takashita
    Rin Nakai
    Kazue Matake
    Takayo Hashi
    Windy Tomimi
    Nadia Van Der Vel
    Jessica Aguilar

    135lbs
    Tara La Rosa
    Amanda Buckner
    Shayna Baszler
    Roxanne Modaferri
    Julie Kedzie
    Hitomi Akano
    Ginelle Marquez-Lee
    Molly Helsel
    Vanessa Porto
    Tonya Evinger

    145lbs
    Marloes Coenen
    Gina Carano
    Kelly Kobald
    Christian Cyborg
    Jen Case
    Michelle Maher
    Elaina Maxwell
    Jennifer Tate
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:43 am
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    paw! tama is awesome but more all-time like yab, no? also when we extend the lists she will be up there but i think needs to beat at least someone in the top 10 at 135 plus has 4 losses in a row, or yu mean list her at 145? 😕

    koolpaw wrote:
    (an innocent cat sneaks in under the crossfire, takes a look at the list… pouts no name of Tama*chan…)

    =^.^=_?
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    Rosi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:10 am
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    Definitely progress 🙂

    Now, Hashi needs to be bumped up a few places (how many i’ll leave to you).

    At 115, Tevi Say is currently inactive, Alicia Gumm has only one fight, but has a win over Watterson. Rebecca Sweeney is 2-0, both wins over Thricia Poovey who is herself 3-4.

    Then you have Sophie Bagherdai 2-0 who beat Crystal Harris 2-3. Not sure exactly what weight they’re at. 125?
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    Josh Barnett
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am
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    Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 12:11 am
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    My goodness Rosi!

    Lots of posts out of you recently…you in between degrees right now? LOL

    Josh
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    koolpaw
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:40 am

    Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:02 pm
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    Location: Japan
    GFC, never mind about what the silly cat pouting, its ok Of course i hope she will challenge to Top fighters like Tara, Amanda someday near future, but buy now if she fights against those strong and tough competiters at 135 lb, i would shout like….

    “OMG ARE YOU SERIOUS? DON`T DIE ! Tama chan!!!” 😯

    I agree with Rosi about Hashi, she should be ranked next to Damm. at least above of Kanako Takeshita for this year, Takeshita is kinda inactive in 2007, she won SG grappling but it was “Grappling” not MMA or standard SG. Takeshita will climb on the ladder soon though. so…

    125lbs
    Megumi Fuji
    Rosi smile
    Carina Damm
    Takayo Hashi
    Kanako Takeshita
    Rin Nakai
    Kazue Matake
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    Rosi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:49 am
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    Josh Barnett wrote:
    My goodness Rosi!

    Lots of posts out of you recently…you in between degrees right now? LOL

    Josh
    lol… no, just trying to avoid doing any real work 😆

    besides, the project appeals to my obsessive compulsiveness 😉
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    ShdwPrwler
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:33 pm
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    Wow, that’s about the best “fight” I’ve seen since Tara and Kelly. 😆 I will say though that I think you got it right now.
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    Jeff
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:49 pm

    Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 4:00 pm
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    I made an equation to estimate the strength of a record. How can it be improved to help with ranking fighters?
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    tapoutuk
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:46 pm

    Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:13 am
    Posts: 240
    Thanks for all the work you guys have been doing on the rankings. I have made the changes on my chart – so they’re updated again.

    I have removed Elaina Maxwell and Michelle Maher – all 3 of her fights have been against Elaina, and Elaina has 4 fights, 3 against Michelle and 1 against Gina – think both need a few more fights against different people before they can get in the list.

    Also put Hashi below Damm as people reckoned she should be there.

    105lbs
    Lisa Ward 11-4-0
    Miku Matsumoto 11-2-0
    Hisae Watanabe 18-6-0
    Satako Shinashi 24-1-2
    Su Hi Ham 2-1-0
    Mai Mai 8-4-0
    Kyoko Takabayashi 8-1-0
    Masako Yoshida 14-13-4
    Naoko Ohmuro 8-6-1
    Ayumi �Edge� Saito 8-4-0

    115lbs
    Megumi Fuji 11-0-0
    Yuka Tsuji 18-1-0
    Michelli Tavares 5-1-0
    Windy Tomimi 9-8-0
    Maiko �Ossan� Ohkada 12-5-0
    Jessica Aguilar 4-2-0
    Rebecca Sweeney 2-0-0
    Jessica Pene 2-0-0
    Alicia Gumm 1-0-0
    Michelle Watterson 1-1-0

    125lbs
    Megumi Fuji 11-0-0
    Rosi smile 7-1-0
    Carina Damm 7-3-0
    Takayo Hashi 11-1-0
    Kanako Takashita 4-0-0
    Rin Nakai 3-0-0
    Kazue Matake 3-2-0
    Windy Tomimi 9-8-0
    Nadia Van Der Vel 4-2-1
    Sophie Bagherdai 2-0-0

    135lbs
    Tara La Rosa 13-1-0
    Amanda Buckner 13-1-0
    Shayna Bazler 8-4-0
    Roxanne Modaferri 10-5-0
    Julie Kedzie 8-6-0
    Hitomi Akano 11-4-0
    Sarah Kaufman 6-0-0
    Ginelle Marquez-Lee 4-6-1
    Molly Helsel 6-4-0
    Vanessa Porto 7-2-0

    145lbs
    Marloes Coenen 13-2-0
    Gina Carano 5-0-0
    Kelly Kobald 15-2-1
    Christian Cyborg 4-0-0
    Jen Case 4-1-0
    Jennifer Tate 2-0-0
    Elaina Maxwell 2-2-0
    Michelle Maher 1-2-0
    Last edited by tapoutuk on Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:48 am, edited 7 times in total.

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    Rosi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:28 pm
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    Some of those records don’t look quite right to me – are they from Sherdog?

    If you’re including girls with one or two fights in the 115 division, you should probably leave Maxwell in for consistency. I’d say just keep going until you get a top 10 in each division. If some of the names are a bit inexperienced, then it just highlights that there are spots in that division up for grabs.

    Speaking of which, Alicia Gumm should really be in there above Watterson – she has the same number of wins (1) and it’s over Watterson herself. Rebecca Sweeney should probably be above both.

    Dlirag – had a quick look, not really played with it yet. My gut feel is that there’s a bit of a problem there, as fighters shouldn’t be penalized for winning fights (which is theoretically possible with that equation, i think). The other issue I have is that a lot of the female fighters have had problems getting fights, so have had to take what matches they can.

    Alternative possibilities – (1) take the best 5 (recent?) opponents from the fighter’s record and use your equation, or (2) just look at the combined win/loss record of the opponents the fighter has wins against.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:04 pm
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    rosi, agree about maxwell and should also include maher who beat her 2 of 3 in their little prvt tourney…also, tara is 14-1 and will look into a few others…
    Rosi wrote:
    Some of those records don’t look quite right to me – are they from Sherdog?

    If you’re including girls with one or two fights in the 115 division, you should probably leave Maxwell in for consistency. I’d say just keep going until you get a top 10 in each division. If some of the names are a bit inexperienced, then it just highlights that there are spots in that division up for grabs.

    Speaking of which, Alicia Gumm should really be in there above Watterson – she has the same number of wins (1) and it’s over Watterson herself. Rebecca Sweeney should probably be above both.

    Dlirag – had a quick look, not really played with it yet. My gut feel is that there’s a bit of a problem there, as fighters shouldn’t be penalized for winning fights (which is theoretically possible with that equation, i think). The other issue I have is that a lot of the female fighters have had problems getting fights, so have had to take what matches they can.

    Alternative possibilities – (1) take the best 5 (recent?) opponents from the fighter’s record and use your equation, or (2) just look at the combined win/loss record of the opponents the fighter has wins against.
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    chad
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:20 pm
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    Location: Laguna Hills, CA
    What about my favorite and good friend…

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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:56 pm
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    yup 2-0 lookin good…will help fill the 115’s….

    chad wrote:
    What about my favorite and good friend…
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    tapoutuk
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:37 am

    Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:13 am
    Posts: 240
    GFC – according to Sherdog Maxwell beat Maher 2-1 not the other way round.

    Rosi – I originally used MMAUniverse but then double checked the all on Sherdog as the majority of them were wrong on MMAU.

    Thanks for all the extra names – it messes with your head cross referencing all the fighters and unfortunately I do miss some names in the process.

    With the exception of 145lbs all of the divisons actually have a top 10 now.
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    tapoutuk
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:53 am

    Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:13 am
    Posts: 240
    So looking at the tables now

    Lisa Ward has beat Miku at no 2 so would be good to see Satako put her Smack Girl title on the line against her.

    115 The experience between the top 5 and bottom 5 is vast.

    125 it’s Megumi and Rosi at the top

    135 Tara has beaten the top challengers to her top spot

    145 if Carano wants the top spot would be good to see her against one of the other 3 girls around her Marloes, Kelly or Cyborg. All three have an aggressive striking style to match her but Marloes and Kelly also have some good ground game too. Would also like to see Marloes fight Cyborg.
    A four woman tourny with these 4 would be very interesting.
    Last edited by tapoutuk on Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:03 am
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    excellent point! gina should have to beat 1 of those 3 to gain the top spot.
    and if she wants a 135 ranking i think she should have to make 135 and beat one of the top 5…not at 140 or any catch weight. she can meet someone there and win but still feel she would have to stay ranked only at the 145. there is a strong case for kelly being ranked also at 135 because she’s been fighting there but has had 2 straight losses, so would need to have a top win AT that weight.

    tapoutuk wrote:
    So looking at the tables now

    Lisa Ward has beat Miku at no 2 so would be good to see Satako put her Smack Girl title on the line against her.

    115 is still waiting for the rematch between Tsuji and Tavares, the reason I originally put Tavares over Tsuji. The experience between the top 5 and bottom 5 is vast.

    125 it’s Megumi and Rosi at the top

    135 Tara has beaten the top challengers to her top spot

    145 if Carano wants the top spot would be good to see her against one of the other 3 girls around her Marloes, Kelly or Cyborg. All three have an aggressive striking style to match her but Marloes and Kelly also have some good ground game too. Would also like to see Marloes fight Cyborg.
    A four woman tourny with these 4 would be very interesting.
    Last edited by GFC on Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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    Rosi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:54 pm
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    nitpicking here, but

    The Tsuji / Taveres rematch happened already – Tsuji won by KO.

    Unless you have insider knowledge that I’m missing, Rebecca Sweeney and Jessica Penne should be ranked over Alicia Gumm and Michelle Watterson on the grounds of record alone.

    If you’re doing a current list, then for consistency Tevi Say should be out because of inactivity (if not, then D’Auguste should be in). I still think Jessica Aguilar would be better ranked at 115. That leaves a space in the 125ers – maybe Bagherdai?
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    tapoutuk
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:21 am

    Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:13 am
    Posts: 240
    Rosi – cheers for all the info. I’ve watched the Tsuji/Tavares rematch but for some reason thought it wasn’t happening til November.

    Moved Jessica Aguilar to 115lbs in place of Tevi Say and put Sophie Bagherdai into 125lbs. Sweeney and Penne also moved up.
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    koolpaw
    Post subject: In JapanPostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:50 pm

    Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:02 pm
    Posts: 304
    Location: Japan
    Ranking of 48kg(100-110lb) may be changed a bit this month in Japan

    Satoko shinasi Vs Sachi
    on 9th(tomorrow our time)
    Kourakuen hall, Tokyo
    DEEP 32 IMPAC

    MIKU vs Masako Yoshida
    on 28th
    clubDEEP Sendai

    are scheduled, and FYI
    Hisae Watanabe vs TBA in kickboxing rule
    on 21th
    clubDEEP Hamamatsu

    is also scheduled.

    special note:
    Satoko Shinashi is going to marry, she wrote on her blog today.
    but whom?
    😯

    wish her happy marrige anyways 😀
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    Mark Grassman
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:12 pm
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    Posts: 1011
    Location: Evansville, Indiana USA
    What would it take for Kyoko Takabayashi, Hiroko, and Michiko Takeda the break into the ranks?
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    tapoutuk
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:16 pm

    Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:13 am
    Posts: 240
    Kyoko has moved into the 105lbs top 10 (number 7) as she has beaten Masako.

    Hiro and Michiko are both over the weight limit for the 145lbs division and I’ve not set out a 155lbs top 10 yet.
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    koolpaw
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:44 am

    Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:02 pm
    Posts: 304
    Location: Japan
    About Kyoko Takabayashi

    Mega Meg vs Kyoko Takabayashi on 9th Nov. at SHOOTO
    has announced few days ago

    they fought in grappring rule last month and Megumi Fujii won by close dicision.

    Megumi wrote she has been waiting for the fight aaginst Kyoko in MMA rule on her blog( she didnt wrote the opponent`s name and what event, at that time though).

    Seems Megumi respects Kyoko`s wrestling skills and consideres Kyoko as a very tough smile.

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