Erica Montoya vs. Shelby Walker at UFC 51?

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    Chad Moechnig
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    dude
    Post subject: Erica Montoya vs. Shelby Walker at UFC 51? PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:26 pm

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    Y’all heard about this rumor? Shelby Walker talked about it in her interview:

    This would be the best fight EVER!!!

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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:56 pm

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
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    No, it would NOT be the best fight ever.

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:00 pm

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    KnockOut2 wrote:
    No, it would NOT be the best fight ever.

    Well not to you cuz you like the one-sided, 10-seconds types of fights, I know. Sorry that I don’t share your ridiculous taste in fights. I like them more even, going the distance, with chicks that don’t look like guys, but can throw punches like guys… ERICA MONTOYA ROCKS!!! The BEST fightergirl on the scene EVER!

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    chad
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:48 pm
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    Don’t tell me its erica’s dad posting again….. you can post your favorite but don’t insult people that don’t think she is the best!!!!

    Chad

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:55 pm

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    chad wrote:
    Don’t tell me its erica’s dad posting again….. you can post your favorite but don’t insult people that don’t think she is the best!!!!

    Chad

    ok ok Shelby Walker and Angela Wilson close behind…

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    chad
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:00 pm
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    I wish the UFC would put women in their show……. Good luck to both of them if they get the show..

    Chad

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:01 pm

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    chad wrote:
    I wish the UFC would put women in their show……. Good luck to both of them if they get the show..

    Chad

    I hope they do cuz Erica M. vs. Shelby W. would be such a great fight.

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    Tim Osborne
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:42 pm

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    Erica and Shelby would not be such a great fight.. It would be very one sided and fast.. Erica would win by any subissions she wants.. Shelby and Erica are not on the same level, plain and simple.

    If the UFC wants to put some girls on the cards (which I would love to see happen, very soon) there are much much better athletes out there to represent the sport, and more importantly mush better matches that could be made.

    By putting a lopsided fight on the UFC.. it does nothing to help the women in the sport. There needs to be a good competitive match that showcases that the women are truely as talented as the men. Erica / Fuji rematch would be great. Howe -vs- Modaferri rematch.. Tara -vs- Howe rematch.. the list goes on…

    and if your doing it based on aesthetics alone.. there are much better looking girls out there than Shelby as well, and they can actually fight..

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:55 am

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    Tim Osborne wrote:
    that the women are truely as talented as the men. Erica / Fuji rematch would be great. Howe -vs- Modaferri rematch.. Tara -vs- Howe rematch.. the list goes on…

    and if your doing it based on aesthetics alone.. there are much better looking girls out there than Shelby as well, and they can actually fight..

    Actually, Shelby can fight. But when you look as good as Shelby you have to fight twice as hard for recognition of your talent and skill. It’s completely disrespectful toward Shelby… I bet she doesn’t participate on this MB, otherwise you wouldn’t have made such a comment.

    I’m not going by looks alone, I’m going by entertainment value (and will probably now incur the wrath of Tara L. and Del G. having made such a heretic comment). Looks definitely help, though… 😉 And I bet the UFC organizers realize that and don’t go by skill level alone… cuz they actually understand business… and give fans what they want… not the other way around, DICTATE to fans whom you respect…

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    Tim Osborne
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:46 am

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    Shelby can fight? That was never questioned nor the issue.. please re-read! The point is that Shelby is not on the level of Erica or the other elite females.. It is pure and simple.. She is not on the level that the UFC should strive for. Their are many many more talented and skilled fighters that will entertain the crowd. In HnS Shelby was lackluster and dominated quickly on the ground by a young up and comer.. I think everyone will agree Erica’s ground game is much better.. she would dominate the fight and it would end in under a minute..

    Shelby has a 2-3-0 record. Of her 2 wins, one came from Beth Westover, whose one and only fight was against Shelby and the other went to Angela Wilson who has a grand 1-2-0 record.

    Shelby was beat by Tara, AJ and Judy Neff.. all where good grapplers and beat her quicky on the ground.. she was dominated.. Erica’s ground game is on par or a notch above these 3.. why would anyone think the outcome would be any different

    I dont dislike, nor intend to disrespect Shelby.. simple facts are though, there are LOTS of girls that deserve the UFC before she does. Beyond that.. her and Erica will not be entertaining.. nor even competitive for that matter.. This match does nothing for to help legetamize the sport, or the girl athletes. I am simply stating.. many deserve to go before her, and if the UFC does pick Shelby.. they need to find another fighter at her level and not Erica.

    You say you going by entertainment? What is entertaining about seeing a completely one sided 45 sec fight that one fighter is owned? I dont want to see it.. and I dont think you would really enjoy it either. I personally have seen 4 of her 5 fights live.. and none were what I would consider to be entertaining..

    I have the utmost respect for anyone and everyone in the sport that steps into the ring. But I think everyone would agree.. you need to be at a certain level to be in the UFC if it is going to remain the elite show in the US..

    UFC doesn’t go by skill alone? What are you smoking? Skill is first on the list.. there is enough male fighters at the top level though, that they can search for entertainment value as well, but the selection always comes from the top athletes.. not journeyman fighters with losing records. One of the most entertaining fighters in the world, in my opinion, is Genki Sudo.. but if he could not fight and had a 2-3-0 record.. do you think he would have ever made it to the US??

    Once again, the point is simple.. There are many better, more skilled women in the sport that deserve the shot at the UFC more. There are many many more entertaining matches that should happen…

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    BrianP
    Post subject: March holds a better fightPostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:18 am

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    Ring of Combat VIII, that is a better fight!

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    Tim Osborne
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:30 am

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    Brian.. agreed.. the upcoming IFC has a good one on it as well

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:55 am

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    Tim Osborne wrote:

    Shelby has a 2-3-0 record. Of her 2 wins, one came from Beth Westover, whose one and only fight was against Shelby and the other went to Angela Wilson who has a grand 1-2-0 record.

    Shelby was beat by Tara, AJ and Judy Neff.. all where good grapplers and beat her quicky on the ground.. she was dominated..

    So? That’s like being dominated by men! All 3 fights were the ultimate mismatches, forgone conclusions… Whoever came up with those 3 match-ups must have been a real genius…

    And while Wilson did lose vs. Tara, that’s probably the best fight on Revolution 2 because Angela made it so good… Although Tara seems a lot heavier than Angela, it wasn’t exactly a one-sided fight… nor was Shelby vs. Tara one-sided. I could have predicted winner in advance, yes, but the match turned out much better than could be expected. Here’s an example of a one-sided and boring fight on Revolution 2: Jennifer Howe vs. Tara LaRosa. First 30-45 seconds of feeling out without much action, then JH dominating Tara. Completely one-sided when Tara got her ass kicked in that one.

    Any fighter’s record can be influenced unfairly by the matches scheduled for them. And that’s exactly what happened to Shelby Walker and Angela Wilson. So those records you mention are absolutely meaningless. It’s like putting up Neff or Howe against the best UFC guys and then saying “she’s no good cuz she now has more losses than wins…” Ridiculous!

    I’m telling you, though, Erica Montoya vs. Shelby Walker, fans will want to see that! And that interview I posted seems to confirm that the UFC organizers caught on to something big.

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    Tim Osborne
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 1:23 am

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    so let me get this straight.. you agree that Tara, Neff and AJ were ultimate mismatches.. yet you think Erica/Shelby should still happen? I am glad your not the matchmaker dude..

    Records are meaningless?? you gotta be kidding.. this is the best statement I think I have ever heard.. That is like going for a loan and saying my income is meaningless.. The records state the facts of the careers. You have admitted that Shelby vs the 3 that beat her was a mismatch.. yet you somehow think Shelby deserves to be in the premier show over them? As far as records being unfairly influenced? Unfair?? You gotta be kidding.. a fighter and their manager/camp agrees to the fight.. it is not unfair, maybe unwise of the fighter/camp/manager to say yes… The matches are scheduled.. they are offered and negotiated..

    Shelby and Tara was not one sided? Come on.. They come out.. each threw a few punches.. nothing lands.. they clinch.. Tara takes he down and lands in half guard.. passes to the side.. then to mount.. “t” ‘s off and gets the stoppage.. takes about a minute a half, two at the most if memory serves correctly.. Shelby never launched any offense at all.

    Not taking anthing away from Howe.. but Tara was fine in that fight as well and in control of the match until she threw the kick. But hey.. she fought and lost to one of the top in the nation.

    Anyone that thinks that is an entertaining fight from Shelby’s side.. is blind.

    “she’s no good cuz she now has more losses than wins…” Ridiculous!
    So let me get his straight.. we should be putting less than the best in the #1 show in the US to represent the sport and the women as a whole.. clueless.. you are blinded by a pretty face and have a very jaded since of reality..

    Again, I have nothing against her as a fighter or a person.. but if she is picked to be one of the first girls in the UFC.. and faces Erica.. it will be UGLY and fast.. beyond that.. if she is in fact picked, it will be based 100% on the male teenage populations lust for her and have nothing to do with fighting skills.. I know as an athlete..

    btw.. there is a whole sport out there beyond your beloved Revolution 2, which is a great dvd.. but hardly a complete view of women in the sport.

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    greatlaughter
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 11:20 am
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    walker vs montoya would suck as a match up. fuji against anyone would be great. other girls are far more techincal and entertaining to the fans. howe deserves UFC. if anyone gets in there before her it’ll be a shame & her opponant should be equally worthly…debi, judy, tara, etc.

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    scarce
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 11:24 am
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    …come on now…….

    …they are looking for an eye candy match…..thats all

    they are not the best……only eye candy….

    ..who cranked my house,,,,,area code 707…was that you deb???????????????

    ..ufc female fight…the first one will be eye candy
    ,,,to see if it peaks an interest…to other viewers…it is a test….test////

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    B
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 8:27 am

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    I really think they are much more interested in showcasing the elite of woman’s MMA – this isn’t mudwrestling. A fighter with tight skills will get way more attention for the sport, compared to a so-so fighter who is deemed to be “hot”. UFC fans want a fight, not eye candy – that’s what the ring girls are there for. IMO it would definately NOT be in Shelby’s best interest to persue this fight with Erica, very bad business decision if it happens. If they can make a ladies fight happen for UFC 51 I’m hopin for the Fuji/Montoya rematch. Regardless it will be interesting to see how 2005 unfolds for ladies MMA.

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:09 am

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    scarce wrote:
    …come on now…….

    …they are looking for an eye candy match…..thats all

    they are not the best……only eye candy….

    ..who cranked my house,,,,,area code 707…was that you deb???????????????

    ..ufc female fight…the first one will be eye candy
    ,,,to see if it peaks an interest…

    eye candy that is without a doubt one of the top fighters out there (Erica Montoya) vs. eye candy who has guts (Shelby Walker). To me that sounds like a terrific match-up…

    Now they just need to hype the match as much as Tara L. vs. Shelby W. … and interest will peak… Cuz news flash: Only a minority of UFC fans think like some of the ppl on this MB…

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    Rikki
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:12 pm
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    I have to agree with Tim and Heather.

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    adriennaaj
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:24 pm
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    “so..thats like being dominated by all three men…all three macthes were mismacthes…whoever set this up with these macthes were a real genius..”

    aloha dude,
    Last time i checked….i was all female. Every inch. wait a sec, let me check with my fiance..oh, what do you you know, yep. he agrees too.
    this thread is pretty unfortunate. I figure as a fight fan when you feel that while you are stating your facts, you are also putting down other fighters as well. Including shelby. Obviously shelby took the fights because she felt that each one of us were worth getting in the ring with. I saw the interview before hand about shelby in the ufc, thought that was cool and wished that i would have a chance to fight her, was acepted by a professional macthmaker who has been in the sport for a long time, as with each and everyone of her other fights, and worked with my team for the fight.as well im sure that mrs.neff and tara did as well. So, in a way, you are also putting down shelby’s work too.
    i have to agree that IF the ufc ever put on a womens macth, there are alot of other women that would be just as interested, but in the end its in the hands of a macthmaker. If shelby fights in the ufc, great, against Ms. Montoya, even better. The fight would speak for itself.

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    Tim Osborne
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:57 pm

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    Dude.. Where is the correlation between having guts and being able to fight or perform? Or even entertain?

    The big question I have for you.. What are basing your little news flash on? What grounds do you have to claim to understand what the UFC fans do and do not want? What study was done on the viewing audience that led you to this conclusion? UFC fans are made up of two types of people. Fighters/fans.. and casual viewers. The fighters and fans will get the ppv or buy the tickets to see good fights (i.e. Erica / Fuji) the casual fans, well most of them have no clue who is on the card, nor do they care. If they do recognize a name it is because they have been around forever (Royce, Severn et al), been in pro-wrestling (Shamrock), or have become a poster child for the UFC (cough Tito). The fact of it is, most viewers are casual fans and most casual fans can’t name 5 non-UFC active fighters nor could they tell Shelby Walker from Dana White on name only..

    My whole point is simple.. this is not a good match.. so much so, I am will to bet Shelby cant last 90 seconds with Erica.. if the fight ever happens.. you name the wager.. When it happens, I will give you the name of a charity that you can send the money too in my name.

    You like to talk, are passionate about Shelby for some reason. Everyone needs a champion I guess.

    There are many other girls that have EARNED their shot through their performance in the ring. They are great athletes, excellent competitors and beautiful people inside and out. That said.. it would be a shame for the best show in the US to showcase womens MMA and use less than the absolute best in the game.

    Oh.. and as for “them” hyping as much as “they” did Shelby and Tara.. The only hyping done there pal was between the two of them feuding.. They fought like cats and dogs, insulted each other and became personal.

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    Tim Osborne
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:09 pm

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    Hey AJ!
    I haven’t had the medium to do it before now.. but I wanted to tell you great fight in HnS.. This was the first time I was able to see fight live, you obviously had plan and executed well! Congrats on a well earned win. Will you be back in the ring anytime soon?

    Oh.. anyone that actually knows you, or has ever seen you could never mistake you for a man..

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    greatlaughter
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:39 pm
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    aj, i think a lot of people are resistant to shelby being the 1st female fight in the ufc because of looks. you know all these girls are interested in being recognized for thier skills. shelby, due to no fault of her own, is judged partially on her looks – by us girls and by promoters and fans. i don’t really care what she looks like and i do give her credit for being more prolific than most of us out there. but i believe that other girls who have worked harder & longer deserve that showcase. i don’t think we are taking away from shelby but more saying we wish we could influence the folks to give other, more credentialed fighters, their 15 minutes.
    shelby would be great to add to the mix. but i don’t think the match up is good anyway. can shelby cut to 125 – would montoya fight at 135. i’d rather see larosa and walker or even walker and debi. the whole montoya match up just throws me off. but that is what MMA is about. right – mixing it up a little.

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:38 pm

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    Tim Osborne wrote:
    Dude.. Where is the correlation between having guts and being able to fight or perform? Or even entertain?

    There is none. But I give Shelby credit for her guts and respect her as a fighter and person. So I can only repeat what I posted before: Erica vs. Shelby would be a great match-up. Shelby’s good looks help, and Montoya is simply the best all around… in EVERY respect. 😀

    I liked the Shelby vs. Tara hype (whoever hyped it)… added a bit of spice to the whole fight… 😈

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:42 pm

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    greatlaughter wrote:
    aj, i think a lot of people are resistant to shelby being the 1st female fight in the ufc because of looks. you know all these girls are interested in being recognized for thier skills. shelby, due to no fault of her own, is judged partially on her looks – by us girls and by promoters and fans. i don’t really care what she looks like and i do give her credit for being more prolific than most of us out there. but i believe that other girls who have worked harder & longer deserve that showcase. i don’t think we are taking away from shelby but more saying we wish we could influence the folks to give other, more credentialed fighters, their 15 minutes.
    shelby would be great to add to the mix. but i don’t think the match up is good anyway. can shelby cut to 125 – would montoya fight at 135. i’d rather see larosa and walker or even walker and debi. the whole montoya match up just throws me off. but that is what MMA is about. right – mixing it up a little.

    Why take Montoya out of the UFC line-up? Why a WAlker vs LaRosa repeat? What’s interesting about that? (Except if they both do some trash-talking again… then it could get interesting 😉 ) Some ppl before posted their view that Erica’s better than Tara… and I agree! Erica’s almost too stunning to be true! She blows me away every single time she steps into the ring. Cuz she has heart, skills… and the looks… 😉

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    chad
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:54 pm
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    Dude
    You are starting to scare me……. did some one say restraining order???

    Chad

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    Rox21
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:42 pm
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    I wrote this big thing, and then erased it because I didn’t want to talk about fighters. I don’t know…..part of me agrees with people saying it’s not the best match up. People have to be really well rounded these days, and UFC upped it’s standards. So maybe get shelby a match against a good kickboxer, and erica against another grappling oriented person? They are skilled in their own fields, you know?

    Plus, forget looks, go with skill. Leaves looks to the ring girls, and the fighting to fighters.

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:07 pm

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    Rox21 wrote:
    I wrote this big thing, and then erased it because I didn’t want to talk about fighters. I don’t know…..part of me agrees with people saying it’s not the best match up. People have to be really well rounded these days, and UFC upped it’s standards. So maybe get shelby a match against a good kickboxer, and erica against another grappling oriented person? They are skilled in their own fields, you know?

    Plus, forget looks, go with skill. Leaves looks to the ring girls, and the fighting to fighters.

    You sound like it’s a tradeoff: You can either look good OR fight well. There is no such tradeoff. MMA fighters can be high in both. Those that ARE high in both are the ones to let fight…

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    Rox21
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:29 am
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    dude wrote:
    MMA fighters can be high in both.

    I agree.

    Quote:
    Those that ARE high in both are the ones to let fight…

    I disagree. I still say it doesn’t matter. For a woman’s fight it’s tricky, because some people don’t believe in woman’s fighting, so they’d only be up for it if the girls are cute, right? Plus I know that there’s a thing going now how woman want to show how they’re feminie but still fighters, so I understand that. Me, I’m a tomboy and don’t care about showing a “feminie” side. I Just want to be a fighter and screw everything else, so that’s where my opinion is coming from. Plus you don’t want to choose looks over skill, but I don’t think you were saying that anyway. You’re right that it’s not ALWAYS a trade off, but you seemed to put more importance on looks. 😛

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    ixion
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:07 am

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    Looks will likely always be a deciding factor for the UFC if they host a women’s fight. Its a sport mostly viewed by males and they won’t be AS interested if the fighters are just skilled but doesn’t supply the eye candy. I think everyone here agrees that skills should be the deciding factor, but that has never been the way the UFC works. Abilities matter but the bottom line is always the show. Beautiful women brawling is a good show for a male viewerbase. The women that get put on a UFC show that aren’t model looks will be the ones that either are extremely brutal (Wandy-type fighter) or are just too good with too good of a record to hold out but one foul up will likely get them booted out (Shaun Sherk scenario).

    Just my thoughts.

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    adriennaaj
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:32 am
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    osborne,
    me, jens and justin had a really awesome time, mett some really wonderful poeple too. have some fights in march…hopefully 😆
    i think this is becoming a good discusion topic now, ive acually got into discusion with friends at my gym about this about how they felt about womens fights, partic. in the ufc. They had read an interview on mma weekly about my upm coming opponent at the time, stating that dana was considering putting them in.
    Some of the fighters, even though they were my friends, stated that any girl would have to be “good looking” to get in, i siad if thats what they are judging on, why not have the ring card girls do a tickling macth and call it a prelime.
    i am definently behind any type of title or big show womens bouts being women with the right record, as well as talent. Like, jen/rox fight…or the last hooknshoot would have venued some great ufc talent: deb/christine..
    the olga/shannon fight was great too. All in all these girls were just as beautiful as any of the ufc ring girls 😉

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:06 am

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    [quote=”Rox21looks over skill, but I don’t think you were saying that anyway. You’re right that it’s not ALWAYS a trade off, but you seemed to put more importance on looks. :P[/quote]

    Not really… Few people before denied the skills and guts of Erica…. Some just seemed to have an issue with Shelby…. that’s where my disagreement was coming from. Sure, she’s not at same level as Erica, but Shelby has guts and determination… she proved that when going against Tara. So I gave her credit for that.

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:08 am

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    ixion wrote:
    Looks will likely always be a deciding factor for the UFC if they host a women’s fight. Its a sport mostly viewed by males and they won’t be AS interested if the fighters are just skilled but doesn’t supply the eye candy. I think everyone here agrees that skills should be the deciding factor, but that has never been the way the UFC works. Abilities matter but the bottom line is always the show. Beautiful women brawling is a good show for a male viewerbase.

    I agree. And I wonder what percentage of viewerbase is male? 85%? Or even higher? Anyone know?

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:09 am

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    adriennaaj wrote:
    osborne,
    womens fights, partic. in the ufc. They had read an interview on mma weekly about my upm coming opponent at the time, stating that dana was considering putting them in.
    Some of the fighters, even though they were my friends, stated that any girl would have to be “good looking” to get in,

    That’s what I was saying all along…. 💡 ❗ 😈

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    chad
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:28 pm
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    Maybe Shelby or Erica can do a little warm up fight before the UFC… I know Debi is still looking……

    Chad

    HI everyone.
    It is looking like I am going to be at Arnolds to compete in the NO gi event. But before I get tickets Id like to set up a MMA fight for that same weekend. at Arnolds, So I am looking for an opponant. I will fight at 130, 135, 140, 150, to get an opponant. So please consider it, especialy if your already going to be there competing. Please E-mail me if your interested,

    Thanks Much
    Debi Purcell

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    Tim Osborne
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:01 pm

    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:42 am
    Posts: 76
    If you want to watch something based soley on “eye candy” watch the Miss America Pagent.

    MMA is a sport, this girls are athletes and need to be judged based on their skill sets, technical knowledge and athletic abilities. If less than the best are showcased simply because they are good looking, it will do nothing to help the sport grow and only make the girls look like “just another pretty face”

    Back to the original point.. Shelby and Erica simply dont match well. Shelby has shown to have a weakness to solid grapplers, and Erica will certainly exploit this. There is a reason that promotions like Shooto have A, B and C classes and others use feeder promotions. There are several distinct classes in the levels of competition in MMA.. there is no shame in not being at the top.. it is simply something to strive for.

    I mean no disrespect to Shelby or anyone else.. in fact, I admire her. She is living her dream. She is a world class athlete (all be it, not one of the top competitors right now). She is supporting herself with something that she loves.. mad props to her for that. She has some holes in her game though. Being at ATT, if she takes advantages of their resources, these holes can be filled. But it will take her a while, if ever, before she can catch Erica.. or any of the other top grapplers in the sport. While she works to fill this void in her game, her and her management team need to search out fighters that suit her styles and skill sets. She needs to find strikers to fight. I agree with you that she is certainly determined and the guts are there (I dont agree with you on how you concluded this.. I dont think she proved that with the Tara fight, but I dont feel like going into that again). I think anyone making a dream come true must have certain level of determination.

    At least in my opinion, the outcome is pretty certain, but Shelby and Jen Howe would make a much more entertaining match. Jen will certainly stand and bang, and while I dont see it lasting very long, there will certainly be a big finish.. more than likely a KO.

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    scarce
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:15 pm
    Fightergirls elite poster

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    easy on the trigger tim

    ..i was just kidding/cause the gals here were complaining

    i feel they are good fighters

    but not the top fighters…….thats all
    …how will we ever find the top female fighters

    ..is it erin…debi…jennifer….rox….
    who is it…

    notice i did not mention 2 ladies….
    i feel they are fighters…but not in the top 5……i apologize…??
    ,,,freedom of preach//

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    Tim Osborne
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:40 pm

    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:42 am
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    Scarce.. that was not directed at anyone specifically..

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    Rikki
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:53 pm
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    Quote:
    If less than the best are showcased simply because they are good looking, it will do nothing to help the sport grow and only make the girls look like “just another pretty face”

    I agree with this totally.
    I also think that there are plenty of women fighters out there who are good looking….Shelby and Erica aren’t the only two.

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    chad
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:21 pm
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    Location: Laguna Hills, CA
    Well, when we speak UFC we try to think of the best fighters being on the show… but we have a problem they want to make the show smile money making thing in my opinion by having Erica vs shelby….

    If you want to see the battle for the best women in the world Jennifer Howe has to be the first choice and if Dana white has to have Erica in his show because she works there there it is Howe vs Montoya… But then we are back to delema of one sided fight because Howe would destroy Erica.

    Here is what I would do

    Jennifer vs Roxi the rematch
    winner to take on Debi Purcell
    winner fights Amanda Buckner
    winner of that to take on Tara La Rosa
    winner of that to take on Laura De Augustine
    and keep it going….

    What do you think???

    Chad

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    Rox21
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:55 pm
    Pro Fighter

    Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:49 pm
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    Tim Osborne wrote:
    If you want to watch something based soley on “eye candy” watch the Miss America Pagent.

    haha, excellent. 🙂

    Chad- something like that. 🙂 Not in that order, probably, if all goes well the next few months.

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    greatlaughter
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:22 pm
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    i still can’t believe i am the only person to offer debi a fight at the arnolds.
    come on, someone has to be going to the show that wants a chance…

    by the way dude, i didn’t intentionally take erica out of the mix. she’s a good fighter and she is an active competitor.

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    starbellykeith
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:23 pm

    Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 12:09 am
    Posts: 200
    Location: Washington, DC/Columbia, MD
    We have debated this one before and my opinion hasn’t changed.

    Don’t worry, I would bet money this match never happens in the UFC. Be real…if UFC did let it be known they would allow a women’s match you would have some very powerful investors and teams beating down the door to have thier fighter on the card ahead of Erica and Shelby. We would all raise a stink if it wasn’t Howe in there, so IMO it would come down to who comes from money or power that will face Howe. I’m still skepticle of even that as it wouldn’t boost PPV buy rates enough to risk the bad mainstream press. Think they are even thinking of having a bloody woman’s face on TV right now with all the reality show buzz? Not for a long time.

    If UFC does hold a women’s bout further down the line it should be 135 class fighters as that has been where the hard work with promoters and competition with the fighters has been. It would be a crime if it didn’t involve Howe or at the very least someone who beats Howe.

    In case it matters my personal suspicion is one of the fighters in the first women’s fight in the UFC would have to be a woman from one of the Gracie schools, a Japanese fighter, or a woman somehow affiliated with K-1.

    KM

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    adriennaaj
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:18 am
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    Location: san diego; CA- Oskaloosa; IA- Kauai; HI
    wow, i hope deb finds an opponent, at least you get to scrabaple though deb! 😀
    Heather, whats up with you nowadays, do you have anything coming up?
    i saw a while ago the awesome news, congrats! best wishes for you and your fiance and your daughter.

    at least on the outside of the ufc, there are some awesome venues going on:
    jen/ rox coming up in march..
    amanda fights soon..
    now rox/laura..that is wierd cause i was out to dinner with friends last night and i asked monte when jennifer would ever fight laura, but it looks like a macth is made for her..lol
    good luck roxy!! atta girl for staying so busy, by the way was in japan for new years and got to go up to the temples? was really neat, meet some cool poeple too. I need to get ahold of you to learn some japanese.. i tryed to use my dictionary? got laughed at constantly. 😯

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    Rox21
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:18 pm
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    Who wants to bet Pride has women first?

    AJ, that’s cool you went to temples! I went home for new years when I was doing my exchange in Japan. heard there were no parties in the streets, and the excitement was ‘eating soba.’ Long noogles, long life – something symbolic like that. 😉 I wish I could teach you Japanese but that might be hard via internet. Want to go back?

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    Mark Grassman
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:13 pm
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    Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:18 pm
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    Location: Evansville, Indiana USA
    Tim Osborne wrote:
    Shelby has a 2-3-0 record. Of her 2 wins, one came from Beth Westover, whose one and only fight was against Shelby and the other went to Angela Wilson who has a grand 1-2-0 record.

    FYI, what that database isn’t telling you is that Shelby Walker’s first MMA victory was against Megan Lee in Arizona. I can’t remember the name of it, but I’m sure the event took place before the first HooknShoot Revolution.

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    greatlaughter
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:45 pm
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    Hi AJ! Well, this is my 7th round of antibiotics since the staff infection. Can’t shake it but I know this is it and I’m back. I don’t have anything except for MAYBE HOPEFULLY something in July. He said June or July but since I am getting married in July I am keeping my fingers and toes crossed it will be July.
    The we have the gracie open in March.
    Cesar is kind of wondering if I’m ever going to come back but I will, I just need to get my bod in check.
    Thanks for the well wishes!!!

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 10:44 am

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    Totally agree, Montoya/Walker is a mismatch on paper which will do ZERO to benefit women’s MMA. And particularly for a first female fight in the UFC it needs to be a fight which will create the absolute *maximum* impact.

    I’m not saying Shelby is not capable of an excellent fight, but it would need to be against someone of equal ability and who’s style matches up perfectly for an epic battle.

    Some of the greatest fights ever were not with the best fighters…Barrera/Morales or Gatti/Ward for example…and so a legitimate rivalry or grudge match is also a big plus as well.

    And while I agree that looks are an important factor in terms of marketing, not at the cost of the quality of the fight. Choosing a match-up which will be a guaranteed WAR is first and foremost. You want folks coming away from that event saying “damn, that women’s UFC bout was the BEST fight iof the night!”

    RA

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 1:58 pm

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
    Posts: 66
    Well, then let’s simply wait what the UFC organizers will decide. Will they put up some manly fighter against some equally manly fighter in desperate need of Jenny Craig? Or will they rather listen to The Dude aka Duderino aka The Greatest Dude there ever was… LOL. … and put up a fight that the casual fans really like. Shelby vs. Erica! Cuz newsflash: A handful of diehard fans posting on this MB does not decide the future of the sport. LMAO. 😈

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:04 pm

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
    Posts: 66
    chad wrote:
    Well, when we speak UFC we try to think of the best Jennifer vs Roxi the rematch
    winner to take on Debi Purcell
    winner fights Amanda Buckner
    winner of that to take on Tara La Rosa
    winner of that to take on Laura De Augustine
    and keep it going….

    What do you think???

    Chad

    Snore…. except for Debi…

    So if you want to see ratings and demand for female fighting go down overnight, yall listen to Chad’s great ideas… 😈

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:07 pm

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
    Posts: 66
    rick_alexio wrote:
    Some of the greatest fights ever were not with the best fighters…Barrera/Morales or Gatti/Ward for example…and so a legitimate rivalry or grudge match is also a big plus as well.
    RA

    Grudge yes. But I cannot really judge these fights… without having seen any pix of these girls first… 😈

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    Rikki
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:14 pm
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    Dude,

    All I’m going to say is, if you think that this board doesn’t acurately portray what MMA fans want to see why don’t you go elsewhere and get opinions?

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:20 pm

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
    Posts: 66
    Rikki wrote:
    Dude,

    All I’m going to say is, if you think that this board doesn’t acurately portray what MMA fans want to see why don’t you go elsewhere and get opinions?

    I do that, too… That’s why I only post on here occasionally… to give some of yall a dose of reality. Then when some fightergirls on here ask their friends about their opinions, my views (that I usually get from others) tend to be confirmed. It’s on p. 3 of this thread, I think…

    Too bad that girls that look like Erin, Erica, or Shelby have to prove something to yall BECAUSE they are so attractive and feminine (but can fight better than some of the manly fighters included on Revolution 1 and 2). In her first answer to the interview posted on this MB, Erin hints at the fact that fighters as hot as her tend to get no respect. If she ever reads the posts in this very thread, she’d see that confirmed. It’s all just jealousy… 😈

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    Rikki
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:28 pm
    Instructor

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    Quote:
    my views (that I usually get from others) tend to be confirmed. It’s on p. 3 of this thread, I think…

    You haven’t said anything in this thread about opinions from other boards. Why don’t you go to the Underground and make a post asking which women fighters they think deserve the UFC? A third of your answers will not be serious, a third of your answers will be that women don’t belong in the UFC, and the last third will tell you the truth.

    Quote:
    Too bad that girls that look like Erin, Erica, or Shelby have to prove something to yall

    Good looking women fighters don’t have to prove anything to the rest of us. If anything, they have to prove themselves to men.

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    Tim Osborne
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:59 pm

    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:42 am
    Posts: 76
    Hey Dude.. I am glad your back! I have missed your smile comments on how you and the rest of the world only care about seeing good looking women fight! So where do I start..

    Ah, yes.. The UFC will decide.. and hopefully they will find something appealing to the fans, and it will be a solid, evenly matched fight. But lets get on to your post..

    Quote:
    “Will they put up some manly fighter against some equally manly fighter in desperate need of Jenny Craig? Or will they rather listen to The Dude aka Duderino aka The Greatest Dude there ever was… LOL. … and put up a fight that the casual fans really like. Shelby vs. Erica!”

    So.. what your saying is that the only match up possible with two good looking girls is Erica and Shelby and the rest of the girls are manly fighters needing jenny craig? Way to go pal.. that will surely get you some friends on this board.. Beyond that, there are many girls fighting today that are at least as physically good looking as both Shelby and Erica (and by saying that, I am not taking anything away from their attractiveness). BTW.. many of the people posting on this thread are beyond fans.. several of the posts are made by people very well educated in the sport with lots of connections. That said… if you still think Shelby and Erica will be entertaining.. please reread everything posted by anyone except you on pages 1, 2 and 3 of this thread. It will be ugly, it will be fast.. the only good thing about it, Shelby will tap out in 30 seconds without a mark on her face so the UFC wont catch hell about having a battered woman on tv.

    Beyond this.. so you only watch fights for physical attractions.. you most enjoy foxing boxing huh?? How about the men, do you only watch them because you think they are cute?? It’s ok, you can admit it to us. After all.. you hiding behind a screen name.

    Last edited by Tim Osborne on Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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    Tim Osborne
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:01 pm

    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:42 am
    Posts: 76
    Quote:
    Snore…. except for Debi…

    So if you want to see ratings and demand for female fighting go down overnight, yall listen to Chad’s great ideas…

    The ratings go down with Chad’s recommendations?? What the hell. that series would, without a doubt, showcase some of the most technical, most skilled women in the world.. and everyone on that list is as attractive as your beloved Shelby.. they just don’t flaunt it.

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    Tim Osborne
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:02 pm

    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:42 am
    Posts: 76
    Quote:
    Grudge yes. But I cannot really judge these fights… without having seen any pix of these girls first…

    As for your grudge match comment.. Do you think the listed bouts are female grudge matches? Is that why you want to see pictures of the girls? If so, you just proved your knowledge of the fight world, or I guess lack there of. Barrera/Morales and Gatti/Ward are not female. They were however some of the best boxing matches fought in the ring.. absolute freakin’ wars!

    Last edited by Tim Osborne on Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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    Tim Osborne
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:09 pm

    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:42 am
    Posts: 76
    Quote:
    Too bad that girls that look like Erin, Erica, or Shelby have to prove something to yall BECAUSE they are so attractive and feminine (but can fight better than some of the manly fighters included on Revolution 1 and 2).

    No one on here has said Erin, Erica or Shelby have to prove anything because of their looks. All of the previous post simply state that the doors should not be opened simply because of their looks. They are all skilled in their own right. Let me ask you this.. If Shelby looked like a troll, would you still be on this rampage wanting her in the UFC? No way..

    If anything.. you doing the exact opposite.. your stating that simply because they are good looking, they should get preferential treatment..

    Beyond that.. no one is seems to be totally against Shelby be in the UFC.. Alot of people (including me) feel that others should go before her. But I think we would all agree.. If it meant getting a girls match on the UFC, it would not matter who it was. The overwhelming tone of this thread you have still ignored or cannot grasp.. Shelby cant hang with Erica.. if she has to be there.. fine.. find her a good match.

    You have referenced a few DVD’s in your post… is this your only exposure to the sport?

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:16 pm

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
    Posts: 66
    Tim Osborne wrote:
    Quote:
    Grudge yes. But I cannot really judge these fights… without having seen any pix of these girls first…

    As for your grudge match comment.. Do you think the listed bouts are female grudge matches? Is that why you want to see pictures of the girls? If so, you just proved your knowledge of the fight world, or I guess lack there of. Barrera/Morales and Gatti/Ward are not female. They were however some of the best boxing matches seen in the last few years..

    ok ok I admit I don’t watch male MMA at all. Don’t know anything about it. Sorry that I have to apologize for only liking female bouts on a female fighting MB. Just because someone likes smile on the Beach does not mean they like Bacardi Coke… I don’t have to know anything about male MMA to appreciate female MMA. Cuz I don’t have to be politically correct. And that, my friend, makes me only more honest than others. Not more smile…

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    Tim Osborne
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:21 pm

    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:42 am
    Posts: 76
    Quote:
    ok ok I admit I don’t watch male MMA at all. Don’t know anything about it. Sorry that I have to apologize for only liking female bouts on a female fighting MB. Just because someone likes smile on the Beach does not mean they like Bacardi Coke… I don’t have to know anything about male MMA to appreciate female MMA. Cuz I don’t have to be politically correct. And that, my friend, makes me only more honest than others. Not more smile…

    Not that it really matters anymore.. the referenced fights are boxing.. not mma.. and if you dont watch male mma at all, that means no UFC.. then how can you have any clue at all as to what would be good for the show? what the fans want? or even what needs to happen?

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:23 pm

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
    Posts: 66
    Tim Osborne wrote:
    Do you think the listed bouts are female grudge matches?

    No, but thanks for playing. I’m saying: There would be more interest for female bouts if only there were more pre-fight trash-talking of the unstaged kind… like Tara vs. Shelby…

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:27 pm

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
    Posts: 66
    Tim Osborne wrote:
    The ratings go down with Chad’s recommendations?? What the hell. that series would, without a doubt, showcase some of the most technical, most skilled women in the world.. and everyone on that list is as attractive as your beloved Shelby.. they just don’t flaunt it.

    u can’t be serious!

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    Tim Osborne
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:46 pm

    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:42 am
    Posts: 76
    Serious.. YES, as a heart attack. Which part do you not agree with? The skill part? How many of those girls have you seen fight? I mean actually seen.. not on highlight reals or dvds.. That list contains the best fighters at 135lbs in the US..

    Or you dont agree with the looks? How many of the ladies have you seen in person? including Shelby.. I am talking pics from fights, or doctored glamour type photos.. I am talking real life, right in front of you, close enough to actually carry on a conversation with?

    Last edited by Tim Osborne on Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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    Tim Osborne
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:48 pm

    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:42 am
    Posts: 76
    Quote:
    No, but thanks for playing. I’m saying: There would be more interest for female bouts if only there were more pre-fight trash-talking of the unstaged kind… like Tara vs. Shelby…

    In all your ramblings on this thread, you have not even come close to saying something along those lines..

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:03 pm

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
    Posts: 66
    Tim Osborne wrote:
    In all your ramblings on this thread, you have not even come close to saying something along those lines..

    oh, i’m sorry you didn’t get it.

    So let me make it crystal-clear: That’s the ONE thing I really like(d) about tara. She had a no prisoner approach to this whole episode. Again, the politically correct people got all uptight about this “grudge” (“unsportsmanlike,” “unfortunate” or whatever they called it). It was great because that fight became so much more than one girl demonstrating her technical superiority. It actually (OMG dare I say it?) became entertaining… without becoming silly like so many fake-ass pre-fight “grudges” in boxing.

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    Tim Osborne
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:26 pm

    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:42 am
    Posts: 76
    you know what dude? I understood it above.. you made it sound as if you have trying to make that point all along.. I am simply stating.. that this is the first you come close to that point..

    I will tell you this though, it takes a good fight, a war to go with the shit talk to make it worth while.. if not, you have a ton of hype.. and then a lot of let down fans. If Lewis and Tyson had ended in the 1st round.. the fight world would have been pissed.. Tito and Randy went quick.. it would have gotten everyone pissed..

    By the way.. shit talking in boxing is almost always real.. it gets stretched by the press some.. but very few boxers like or have anything good to say about their opponents.. it is generally a completely different attitude than found in MMA. The fake stuff.. you must be thinking of WWE.. but thanks for playing..

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:32 pm

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
    Posts: 66
    Tim Osborne wrote:
    By the way.. shit talking in boxing is almost always real.. ..

    yes, as real as anything WWE-related, I know… 😈 and in boxing they don’t fix fights at all? no of course not… get real…

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    Tim Osborne
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:59 pm

    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:42 am
    Posts: 76
    Quote:
    yes, as real as anything WWE-related, I know… and in boxing they don’t fix fights at all? no of course not… get real…

    Dude wtf are you talking about?? No where in this thread has anyone said anything about fixing fights.. we were talking about shit talking.. Fixing fights is part of the boxing business, shit talking is part of the athletes attitude towards each other.. and yes.. there are alot of boxing matches that are fixed. I know several former world champions that have been paid not to take a fight, or not to win a fight.. it is sad, but it happens all the time. Just cause a guy is taking a dive doesn’t make his ill will or shit talking any more or any less legit. The boxing biz is corrupt as hell and in time, as it becomes more mainstream, MMA will see this to (it already has in a few shows). If you want to discuss this though, we can start a new thread on that subject.

    Having said this.. we are getting way off track.. back to the subject of the thread.

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:08 pm

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
    Posts: 66
    Tim Osborne wrote:
    paid not to take a fight, or not to win a fight.. it is sad, but it happens all the time. Just cause a guy is taking a dive doesn’t make his ill will or shit talking any more or any less legit. The boxing biz is corrupt as hell and in time, as it becomes more mainstream, MMA will see this to (it already has in a few shows). .

    exactly. that’s why W-L records cannot always be believed or taken as the final word on a fighter’s true ability. Good examples: Angela Wilson or Shelby Walker. That W-L records depends on at least two things: (1) Has the fight been fixed or not? (2) Has fighter’s manager made a good decision? If management gets bamboozled by other fighter’s manager, that W-L record is absolutely meaningless.

    no reason for getting back on track cuz i know i won’t ever change ur opinion that only skills matter in female MMA. I stick to my view that skills AND looks matter… and that there’s nothing wrong with that.

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    Rikki
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:38 pm
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    Quote:
    I stick to my view that skills AND looks matter… and that there’s nothing wrong with that.

    There is something wrong with that. MMA is a sport….not a beauty contest. Do looks matter in basketball? Soccer? Tennis? Do looks matter in track and field? No….no one cares so long as the athletes are talented. MMA should be the same way.

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:45 pm

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
    Posts: 66
    Rikki wrote:
    Quote:
    I stick to my view that skills AND looks matter… and that there’s nothing wrong with that.

    There is something wrong with that. MMA is a sport….not a beauty contest. Do looks matter in basketball? Soccer? Tennis? Do looks matter in track and field? No….no one cares so long as the athletes are talented.

    Actually in all these sports, looks and personality matter *in addition to* skills. In any individual sport like tennis it’s even more important (but team sports important, too, like Michael Jordan or Dennis Rodman). You can be no. 1 in your sport, but you have no fans. Lindsay “THe Bulldog” Davenport and Venus Williams are good examples… Sharapova, Kournikova, and Serena Williams just the opposite… Similarly, women don’t go watch some guy play tennis just because he’s good… And in the end it’s the fans that matter…

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    Tim Osborne
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:19 pm

    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:42 am
    Posts: 76
    Dude.. your right.. you wont sway me.. no matter how hard you try, it is not a good match.

    Records do matter, if they didn’t no one would keep track of them.

    I dont think only skills matter, looks and entertainment value do matter, but it is far behind skill, which is much, much more important. Showmanship is important, but if you cannot at least compete at the level.. no one will care.

    Quote:
    exactly. that’s why W-L records cannot always be believed or taken as the final word on a fighter’s true ability

    Are you implying that womens mma is corrupt? and there are girls taking dives? Hate to break it to you pal, there is no money in this sport, These girls have to much pride to dive for the minimal paydays they are getting.. they fight for pride. The dives I was refering to are in Japan in the large male shows.

    As for the records.. A fighter is offered the fight.. they can accept or reject. A fighter and their are left to find the best fights for them and build their records along with their experience and skills. The fighter and their camp will either reap the rewards of their choices.. or suffer the consiquences.. but no one is making them do it. It is their choice.

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:24 pm

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
    Posts: 66
    Tim Osborne wrote:
    As for the records.. A fighter is offered the fight.. they can accept or reject. A fighter and their are left to find the best fights for them and build their records along with their experience and skills. The fighter and their camp will either reap the rewards of their choices.. or suffer the consiquences.. but no one is making them do it. It is their choice.

    Damn straight (but managers do make dumb decisions). Because of the importance of wise decisions, I’m hoping Erica’s and Shelby’s camps will both accept the UFC offer when it comes… Shelby already basically already said yes in her interview… and for Erica, it would be wise to accept cuz it would just mean another Win for her… and confirm that she’s at the very top of the sport… despite some wicked rumors that Kobold (previous thread) or LaRosa are no. 1. 😈

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    Tim Osborne
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:39 pm

    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:42 am
    Posts: 76
    Shelby and Erica.. once again would be boring..
    Tara, Shelby and Kelly are not the same weight class as Erica.. so it doesn’t matter if Kelly or Tara is ranked number one.. Tara is 135.. and Kelly fights from 135 to as high as 150.. different weight classes.. so once again.. you have babbled about something that really doesn’t matter..
    (or is weight classes like records? do they not matter either?)

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:44 pm

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
    Posts: 66
    Tim Osborne wrote:
    Shelby and Erica.. once again would be boring..

    Why don’t we let the smart people at UFC make that decision? The rumors are not just rumors… 😀

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    Tim Osborne
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:44 pm

    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:42 am
    Posts: 76
    dude.. you win.. you obviously know more about the sport, more about the athletes, and more about promotions and the fans than anyone else here.. thanks for the education.. but this is boring me now and have a life to live away from the keyboard.. cheers! and I happen to know for a fact.. that at least for now.. they are rumors.. and as much as I would love to see it.. no womens fights, at least for awhile.

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    Rox21
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:55 pm
    Pro Fighter

    Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:49 pm
    Posts: 1334
    Location: Kanagawa/Japan
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. If everyone had the same opinions, message boards would be boring, don’t you think?

    Tim, you’re not going to change dude’s mind. I hate to see you getting worked up over it, when the majority of people probably don’t think like dude.

    Dude, in regards to a group of message board people deciding fights or something…most of the women fight here, heh! 🙂

    “I stick to my view that skills AND looks matter… and that there’s nothing wrong with that.

    “”There is something wrong with that. MMA is a sport….not a beauty contest. Do looks matter in basketball? Soccer? Tennis? Do looks matter in track and field? No….no one cares so long as the athletes are talented. MMA should be the same way.””

    Rikki, I wish I could say the same, that there IS something wrong with that. I think someday looks won’t matter, but I have a feeling that for the first UFC match, they will take looks into consideration. I don’t like it, but we shall see.

    I still bet Pride will have women’s fights first. 😛 Japan’s fans understand mma better anyway, in my humble opinion.

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:00 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    Two separate issues here, looks (image) are a marketing issue not an indicator of skill or performance level. Both are important in their own ways.

    Looks and image are a *huge* part sports marketing, as are rivalries. Plenty of women also go “ga ga” over Tito, Oscar D, or Michael Jordan…so, I do understand your ‘enthusiasm’ towards Shelby. However, the problem, dude.. is that in your overzealousness towards the “aesthetics” of the match-up you’re overlooking an important issue……..the *Fight*.

    No matter how good looking you may think Shelby is if she gets her as kicked in 30 seconds what purpose does it serve? Erica is the *wrong* girl for her to mess with. Even when ALL elements are set up perfectly it’s still difficult to “capture the magic” of a great match-up.

    I was using “Barrera/Morales and Gatti/Ward” as a template/barometer for what most people generally would consider the epitome of a “ring war”….and *that* is what’s needed to create the greatest impact in a first women’s UFC appearance.

    As a matter of fact, for whichever women do end up being chosen, it is highly recommended that they view those bouts, with their manager/trainers, for “intensity” in their fight preparation.

    Now, *if* Montoya/Walker had any reasonable indication of having Gatti/Ward potential, you would be absolutely on target…but as of right now, it doesn’t.

    Here’s a suggestion, go scout out two other “hot” mma girls who *do* match up much better (equally) skill/size/looks-wise with both Erica and Shelby, aquire some serious sponsor/promoter backing, and then make a double-header fight proposal.

    RA

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    Tim Osborne
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:06 pm

    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:42 am
    Posts: 76
    Roxy.. it is more amusement than getting worked up over it..

    Rick.. well said.

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:14 pm

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
    Posts: 66
    Rox21 wrote:
    I still bet Pride will have women’s fights first.

    Any rumors on the fighters?

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:37 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    Thanks, Tim…and for the superbout descriptions I never thought would be needed in a fight forum. 🙂

    ((j/k))@dude

    And Roxy I hope you’re right, Pride would be a nice exposure step in-and-of itself..

    RA.

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    chad
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:24 pm
    Fightergirls elite poster

    Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 7:16 am
    Posts: 671
    Location: Laguna Hills, CA
    Well Dude,

    Let us know how you were planning to keep the women fighting in the UFC after Shelby and Erica fight???? Where these 2 planning on fighting other pro fighters or was this just going to be a one time thing??

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:43 pm

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
    Posts: 66
    chad wrote:
    Well Dude,

    Let us know how you were planning to keep the women fighting in the UFC after Shelby and Erica fight???? Where these 2 planning on fighting other pro fighters or was this just going to be a one time thing??

    Try answering it nicely Dude!!! I have the power to remove your posts and better yet you!!! Get my point!!!!!!!! 👿

    Chad

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    chad
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:10 pm
    Fightergirls elite poster

    Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 7:16 am
    Posts: 671
    Location: Laguna Hills, CA
    like i said before best of luck to both of them… Or who ever fights in the UFC or Pride

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    Executioner
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:26 am

    Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 1:48 pm
    Posts: 444
    Location: Netherlands
    Tim Osborne wrote:
    Quote:
    ok ok I admit I don’t watch male MMA at all. Don’t know anything about it. Sorry that I have to apologize for only liking female bouts on a female fighting MB. Just because someone likes smile on the Beach does not mean they like Bacardi Coke… I don’t have to know anything about male MMA to appreciate female MMA. Cuz I don’t have to be politically correct. And that, my friend, makes me only more honest than others. Not more smile…

    Not that it really matters anymore.. the referenced fights are boxing.. not mma.. and if you dont watch male mma at all, that means no UFC.. then how can you have any clue at all as to what would be good for the show? what the fans want? or even what needs to happen?

    This topic is hilarious!
    Way to go Tim! 😉

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