Free Speech

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    Chad Moechnig
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    colinjackson
    Post subject: Free Speech PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:47 am

    Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:54 am
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    What is wrong with you people?

    I posted an opinion about female fighting and cos it touched on a few nerves it got deleted and I have been threatened to be banned. I honestly don’t see any problem with what I said, I am allowed an opinion. Or do we all have to conform to the same views to post on here?

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    DianeB
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:10 am

    Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:49 am
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    Location: North West England
    What was your opinion?

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    colinjackson
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:15 am

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    I said that a female fighter at the same weight with similar experience couldn’t beat a male. But this will probably get deleted.

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    purple_octopus
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:14 am

    Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 5:51 am
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    Are you sure it was the content of your post, and not the method of delivery, that got your post deleted?

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    colinjackson
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 6:05 am

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    I don’t see what it matters. i only expressed an opinion, no matter what the delivery. I didn’t outright insult anyone or be offensive.

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    purple_octopus

    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 6:25 am

    Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 5:51 am
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    Location: Knoxville, TN
    Okay, I was just asking. I’m mostly a lurker here, but I’ve seen women express opinions similar to yours, so it struck me as odd that a post like that would be deleted because of that opinion alone.

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    debi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:17 am
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    What is wrong with you people?

    I posted an opinion about female fighting and cos it touched on a few nerves it got deleted and I have been threatened to be banned. I honestly don’t see any problem with what I said, I am allowed an opinion. Or do we all have to conform to the same views to post on here?

    You must have OUR opinion or get banned 😆 . I am kidding,

    I honestly did not read your post, but the 2 mods here do not delete anything unless they have a good reason. If your post was flaming, towards female fighters well that may be it. if the post is opinionated and respectful it stays. if its derogatory and rude it usually goes.

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    chad
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:28 am
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    colinjackson wrote:
    I don’t see what it matters. i only expressed an opinion, no matter what the delivery. I didn’t outright insult anyone or be offensive.

    I deleted your post and stop trying to act like a victum here!!!! This is a privatlely owned messageboard so follow the rule or you will be gone!

    Chad

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    colinjackson
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:30 am

    Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:54 am
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    Thank you for the reasonable reply, its much appreciated. I think i must have hit a touchy subject for some people and they obviously took offence to it. I would like to open this discussion though as I don’t really see how anyone could think a female fighter should be put against a male fighter with the same weight and experience, as its obvious who would win. Men are physically different to women therefore have a big advantage. I said that if the girl on the other show won it was because he guy was either holding back as to not hurt her or obviously lacked a lot of experience.

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    Anthea
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:39 pm
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    I think you should go and “open your discussion” elsewhere- I for one am sick of the endless debate on that topic. It’s been done here before and only just got everyone fired up, so i suggest you go and find somewhere else to post if that’s the kind of debate you’re interested in.

    Anthea

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    colinjackson
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:40 am

    Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:54 am
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    I think you are a very rude person. This is supposed to be a discussion forum and your not the only one around here discussing things. Now if the moderators have not deleted my post and it wasn’t deemed offensive then I suggest you let people decide for themselves whether to take part in this debate. So far on this forum there have been very few polite people. I don’t think you will encourage many new posters if you all carry on with this attitude.

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    scarce
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:16 am
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    this topic is old about

    women fighting men….

    first off this is a support female mma website

    ,,you must have something against women..

    ,,you should be making postive comments 4 female mma

    on this forum

    it is strictly women fighting women
    and women improving their mma status.

    so take your lame topic..back to your closet////

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    Rox21
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:34 am
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    well, size wise if the man is the same size as the woman, their strength might or might not be similar. it depends. and if they’re the same skill, you also never now. my opinion is that it’s up in the air.

    Anthea, I see where you’re coming from, but I agree that it is an open forum and maybe the newcommer wasn’t here when it was discussed before. So if people want to respond, or ignore it, that’s kind of up to them. 🙁 Don’t you think? I was going to ignore this thread because I don’t care to discuss something as silly as that (it doesn’t matter what anyone else things…I fight and train anyway!) until I read this last bit and saw people getting miffy.

    I don’t want anyone to be rudely turned away, but I don’t want someone to make a troll-like post either just to get the women of the forum worked up. (troll = posting something just to make people upset) So Colin, you can see that by stating firmly that men can always beat women under those circumstances, you are setting yourself up to have a bunch of indignant women after you. 🙂 That’s probably why chat deleted your post because it wasn’t showing enough respect or something.

    Let’s go back to chatting with no hard feelings!

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    Anthea
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:30 pm
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    Yeah i realised in hindsight (such a wonderful thing is hindsight isn’t it) that i probably should’ve just ignored it… it’s just it hit a nerve and my fingers just ran away from my brain hehe.

    Anthea

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    Anthea
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:32 pm
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    Dammit, i just realised i wasted my 100th post on that! 🙁

    here was i thinking i would save it for when i wanted to say something really important and groundbreaking but no…

    oh well. 😉

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    Rox21
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:39 am
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    *hugs anthea* 😆

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    Mark Grassman
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:08 pm
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    colinjackson wrote:
    I said that a female fighter at the same weight with similar experience couldn’t beat a male. But this will probably get deleted.

    Of, course you are entitled to your opinions, despite the fact they are wrong. At a youth wrestling meet in the 1980’s, there was a young girl who consistantly beat the boys she was matched up with. She was the daughter of my former dentist. He had all his kids wrestle, sons and daughters.

    She’s likely thirtysomething now.

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    colinjackson
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:29 am

    Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:54 am
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    Firstly I would like to say I have nothing against female fighters and have total respect for girls in any type of combat sport. However I do believe that a girl would never beat a guy.

    Children are totally different for a start, as all children are built alike up until puberty, so that comment makes no odds to this discussion.

    Thank you Rox, you are correct I am a new poster on here and reader and wasn’t around to take part in prior discussions. I am inclined to disagree with part of your post though.

    Quote:
    well, size wise if the man is the same size as the woman, their strength might or might not be similar. it depends. and if they’re the same skill, you also never now. my opinion is that it’s up in the air.

    If a man and woman are the same size and have had had equal training, experience the guy would win over (unless he was a retard or a gentleman) as guys are built different to girls. They are naturally stronger and more athletic. I am not saying a girl cannot be a good athlete as they can with work but they have to put in 10x or more work than a guy if they want to be able to compete against them. This is a fact, do your research, i have.

    Scarce. I do support female vs female mma, i have nothing against women, the post started as tapoutuk was getting touchy about a girl’s record when she obviously didn’t beat a guy without it being unfair or an exhibition. This was posted on this forum.

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    wrestleone
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:56 am

    Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:09 am
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    lets be real if a guy and girl are the same size and the same skill level the guy will most usually win. sometimes not who cares………………

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    powerhockey17
    Post subject: Shi* DisturberPostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:03 am
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    ya this subject is soooo OLD…I can only speak for myself but I have beaten guys of my weight and experience..but SO WHAT??? Who cares as I don’t judge a guys manhood any less if he can beat me or not. I am sure other women here can relate to what I am saying..

    I can beat some and I lose to others. I do not have this idea that I can beat all men, that’s just plain silly…Just as anyone else here who trains..I had to stop fighting guys cuz I never got the respect for being skilled or being the better fighter…it was always put as the guy “being a smile”..or some other crap!

    This is Colin Jackson sounds like he just wants to stir the pot..

    Fuzzy!

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    Rox21
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:37 am
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    heh yeah this post is old, but oh well. I have seen females at NAGA compete and beat men in advanced divisions…like Laura D’Auguste, who I just lost to.

    Let’s sort out opinion and fact. I was thinking Colin, that when you post that guys are built differently so that’s one of the reasons why they’ll win…I don’t think it’s accurate to say that if a guy and a girl are the same size the guy’ll be stronger. I know this is different, but I’m bigger than Laura D, and she hit way harder than me. So that part of your argument is (in my opinion) your opinion rather than fact.

    But if you still think that men can always beat women if they’re the same size…then feel free to hold that opinion until you see something that changes your mind. I hope it’s changed soon.

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    greatlaughter
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:16 am
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    Yes. This is old. It’s like revisiting ther ‘women can’t be fighter pilots’ debate of my childhood.
    Colin, I think many of us girls have beaten guys our same size and weight and experience level. When you do your research, if you are selective baout the answer you are looking for you will find it. Personally, I know it’s not true but it is one of those things that if you really believe that, only experience will change your mind.

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    colinjackson
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:13 am

    Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:54 am
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    ok, firstly are you guys talking mma or submission? cos submission is a different ball game. A girl will have a better chance against a guy and the fight wouldn’t be as unfair but when punching is involved, if the guy loses then he probably is a smile or a gentleman.

    Quote:
    I don’t think it’s accurate to say that if a guy and a girl are the same size the guy’ll be stronger.

    You lot need to so a lot of research, look at this sitehttp://northonline.sccd.ctc.edu/jud … ysical.htm

    Quote:
    Men are 10-15% larger than women, and 30% stronger, especially in the upper body. Men have larger hearts and lungs, and their higher levels of testosterone cause them to produce greater amounts of red blood cells. All of this translates into men being able to take in and distribute more oxygen to the cells of his body than a woman can (though this difference decreases between highly trained male and female athletes).

    Quote:
    The above differences in intake and delivery of oxygen translate into some other aspects of performance—if a man jogs along at about 50% of his capacity, a woman will need to work at over 70% of her capacity to keep up!

    http://www.narth.com/docs/york.html

    Quote:
    Michael Levin notes that women only have 55- 58 percent of the upper body strength of men and on average, are only 80 percent as strong as a man of identical weight. smile differences also appear by the age of three in the ability of males and females to throw a ball far and accurately.

    You can’t deny facts. Guys are built differently, they will win with the same amount of experience and training.

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    powerhockey17
    Post subject: then how do you??PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:29 am
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    Explain some of us who have beaten men. And I for one maybe an exception as I have beaten men in MMA and submission style fights.
    But again just because I beat a man, doesnt mean anything to me..A fight is a fight plain and simple. Guy or Girl don’t matter.

    But then again I dont fit into the norm as I used to bench press over 300 lbs..So, how do you explain that??

    Seems like you are the type that believes everything you read. Not every man is built the same, just as not ever woman is built the same..

    Your opinion holds no water here. Your just a shit disturber who needs a good beating. Either that or you must not like women.

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    tapoutuk
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:46 am

    Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:13 am
    Posts: 240
    Hi Colin

    I also see that you whinged about censorship on the Cage Warriors forum. How dare you day that our male v female wasn’t fair.

    Claire and Steve were equal in weight, training and experience going into the fight. Claire simply beat on him in the first round, in the 2nd it was a bit more equal and in the 3rd Steve had nothing left and simply held on until the finish.

    Buy the DVD if you want to see for yourself. But please stop using this forum and others to whinge about your rights. Plenty of people disagree with you because they have seen it happen with their own eyes.

    If you think this will win you some kind of trolling credit with the SWS boys then you are sadly mistaken.

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    Rikki
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:47 am
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    Point #1
    colinjackson said:
    Quote:
    Children are totally different for a start, as all children are built alike up until puberty, so that comment makes no odds to this discussion.

    But his research says:
    Quote:
    smile differences also appear by the age of three in the ability of males and females to throw a ball far and accurately.

    Point #2
    It doesn’t matter if it’s MMA or Submission Wrestling because if it goes to the ground it’s no longer about boxing. I know they can still strike from the ground but it can be easier to defend.

    Quote:
    if the guy loses then he probably is a smile or a gentleman.

    This is sheer ignorance. The woman may have better footwork, letting her get in more shots. In a boxing match, the number of punches thrown is a big factor in a judges’ decision. Losing the match doesn’t necessarily mean being knocked out.

    Point #3
    You keep saying “the same size”. Do you mean size, as in body dimensions, or weight? I’ve seen quite a few guys at 135lbs. that are scrawny compared to some 135lbs. women.

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    colinjackson
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:57 am

    Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:54 am
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    point 1:

    what does catching a ball have to do with judo? Read the whole article on the link!

    Point 2:

    Can you punch to the head in submission? No!

    We aren’t talking boxing here, we’re talking mma, in mma, the guy would clinch and take her down. But if she is far superior in technique then that defy’s the point, I said same training and experience.

    Point 3:

    I mean same weight catagory. If a guy is scrawny, he would be a lot taller to be the same weight. men carry less body fat than women, another fact. The woman would still have less muscle.

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    colinjackson
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:06 am

    Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:54 am
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    powerhockey17

    Explain some of us who have beaten men – smile’s or gentlemen or not as technical/experienced. Was it sparring or a match?

    Quote:
    Guy or Girl don’t matter.

    Read the above post again, it matters.

    Quote:
    I used to bench press over 300 lbs..So, how do you explain that??

    you trained hard, its possible.

    Quote:
    Seems like you are the type that believes everything you read.

    I believe £1000’s of research

    Quote:
    Your opinion holds no water here. Your just a shit disturber who needs a good beating.

    Ha ha, are you gonna do it?

    Quote:
    You must not like women.

    I think women are great especially those who train, just not deluded ones

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    colinjackson
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:09 am

    Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:54 am
    Posts: 15
    tapoutuk

    lol @ it being a fair fight, the guy was obviously a gentleman or unaware of it being changed from an exhibition.

    Quote:
    Buy the DVD if you want to see for yourself.

    i’d rather not waste my money

    Quote:
    please stop using this forum and others to whinge about your rights

    Your the only one whinging, I’m only expressing and opinion and stating facts. I haven’t once got angry at anybody here, but people seem to want to be abusive to me.

    [/quote]If you think this will win you some kind of trolling credit with the SWS boys then you are sadly mistaken.
    Quote:

    I thought SWS were a forum of independant thinkers, not so called trolls…

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    Rikki
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:55 pm
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    point 1:

    Quote:
    what does catching a ball have to do with judo? Read the whole article on the link!

    If it doesn’t apply, why did you find it important enough to quote?

    Point 2:

    Quote:
    Can you punch to the head in submission? No!

    You seemed to be saying that women would have the disadvantage if they were standing, but that it would be more fair on the ground. You can do both in MMA so it doesn’t really matter which they are doing.

    Quote:
    We aren’t talking boxing here, we’re talking mma, in mma, the guy would clinch and take her down. But if she is far superior in technique then that defy’s the point, I said same training and experience.

    Just because two people have the same training and experience doesn’t mean that one can’t be better than the other at a certain range. Natural ability, strength, and mindset play into it, too. Start two people in an MMA class at the same time – they learn the exact same things for one year. They will each have their strengths and weaknesses….they will not be the same.

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    colinjackson
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:02 am

    Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:54 am
    Posts: 15
    Point 1: 🙄

    Point 2: I implied nothing. A man will be stronger both standing and on the ground, submission is different, a guy would still have a strong advantage but the girl may be able to take advantage of a mistake. If there is striking a guy would outstrike the woman causing much more damage.

    Point 3: For there to be a significant skill difference then one of them would have to be slow or the other a born natural and this isn’t the case 99% of the time. You also have not taken into account physical development, a guy will have delevoped way more than the woman, therefore be superior.

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    Rikki
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:15 am
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    Quote:
    a guy would outstrike the woman

    So you believe that this is always true? Ignorance.
    Quote:
    one of them would have to be slow or the other a born natural

    So you don’t believe that some people just pick things up faster? More ignorance.
    Quote:
    You also have not taken into account physical development, a guy will have delevoped way more than the woman, therefore be superior.

    And even more ignorance.

    I believe you have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, men are typically stronger than women, but strength is not all that matters. If you are bigger than me but my technique is better it could be anybody’s game. This applies to a man vs. a woman or a man vs. a smaller man.

    I’m through with this conversation. You are entitled to your own opinion and you are obviously too stubborn to listen to reason. I hope you figure this out one day.

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    colinjackson
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:49 am

    Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:54 am
    Posts: 15
    No, you have come up with nothing to change my opinion, just calling me ignorant which i am not. I won’t argue point one again as I have stated where I stand on this, but as for points 2 & 3:-

    I do believe that people pick up things faster, but someone who is slow at picking up techniques would not be of the same standard would they, duh!

    I can’t believe you are so ignorant to fact and common sense to think with the same physical training a woman could ever be better than a man. The page I posted and also many others (this being a proven fact) states that to gain the same improvement as a male a woman will have to work at 70% when a guy is only working at 50%. Therefore if they arre both working hard the guy would improve significantly more.

    as for being too stubborn to listen to reason, you want to take a look at yourself

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    dl_angel
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:18 am

    Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:49 pm
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    Location: Austin, Texas
    Quote:
    If a man and woman are the same size and have had had equal training, experience the guy would win over (unless he was a retard or a gentleman) as guys are built different to girls.

    Not all girls are built differently than guys- there are girls who spend enough time at the gym that they have very similar body types.

    I think that a guy with similar skill/weight would generally win over a female, but I think there are other factors involved….

    for example, most male pro fighters that I know have a lot more opportunities to get fights than female fighters do- against evenly matched opponents. Also, it’s my impression that women go pro quicker due to a lack of opponents in amateur. Also, being the same weight doesn’t mean you’re the same strength. And being female gives some advantages too, but there’s a lot more “sensitive” areas on a female body (just the way it is).

    I don’t think it’s POSSIBLE to have an evenly matched fight so that anyone will ever accept it as the woman’s win so there’s no point in even arguing this topic.

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