how would they do in the ring

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    Chad Moechnig
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    holddown
    Post subject: how would they do in the ringPostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:33 am

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    Executioner
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:03 am

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    Well, they would do fine against eachother, but against a female MMA pro , it will be one short way street…. 8)

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    debi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:48 am
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    I might be seeing things, but it seemed as if the bottem girl was going for an arm bar, then decided she was not supoosed to use technique, Also the top girl seemed to have a litte bit of base 🙄

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    Executioner
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:39 am

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    debi wrote:
    I might be seeing things, but it seemed as if the bottem girl was going for an arm bar, then decided she was not supoosed to use technique, Also the top girl seemed to have a litte bit of base 🙄

    Maybe a nice opponent for you Deb! 😉

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    scarce
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:23 pm
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    ..in the ring…….they would last…6 seconds…
    ..the one in the bottom..just wanted separation…from the the fluffy punches,,,,,,,i like how the van stopped to gawk……..gawkers…

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    chad
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:27 pm
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    I thought this would have been filmed by Scarce Productions…….

    Chad

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    scarce
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:52 pm
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    ..hmmmm…
    ..scarce productions went out of business in 1993?

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    Anystylist
    Post subject: Good raw material for somebody here to work with…PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:40 pm

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    I liked their instincts, even if their technique, from whatever their experience base, was sloppy. They both landed punches, took shots and kept fighting, showed an inclination to fight at ranges advantageous to them, and didn’t make obvious errors like turning their heads or throwing roundhouse punches/slaps.

    BTW, notice the absence of kicking? Goes against general expectations for a F2F streetfight.

    Also, notice that the 3rd girl (who pulled whiteshirt off blackshirt) trapped whiteshirt’s right hand so she could rabbit punch her with her own right?

    All three may not have had training, but they have either experience or damn good instincts.

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    scarce
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 3:11 pm
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    ..i think they got a hold of the revolution dvd….it was on sale?

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    dude
    Post subject: Re: Good raw material for somebody here to work with…PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:45 pm

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
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    Anystylist wrote:
    I liked their instincts, even if their technique, from whatever their experience base, was sloppy. They both landed punches, took shots and kept fighting, showed an inclination to fight at ranges advantageous to them, and didn’t make obvious errors like turning their heads or throwing roundhouse punches/slaps.

    BTW, notice the absence of kicking? Goes against general expectations for a F2F streetfight.

    Also, notice that the 3rd girl (who pulled whiteshirt off blackshirt) trapped whiteshirt’s right hand so she could rabbit punch her with her own right?

    All three may not have had training, but they have either experience or damn good instincts.

    i agree

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    dude
    Post subject: entertaining to watchPostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:51 pm

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
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    im telling you one thing tho: their fight is much more entertaining to watch than some one-sided, mismatched ring action ending in round 1.

    u can order their full fight from this web site:

     

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: re: here’s the deal on this fight…PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:25 am

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    It’s raw and aggressive so there’s an “intrinsic” factor which makes it entertaining. Both have obvious fight experience so it’s a cut above most of these other “caught on video” kitty slapfests…(catch the right hook followed by the inside elbo which floors the blond for a microsecond, but then she comes back with the 3 strike flurry on the ground)…

    Is it pro female MMA skill level?…no, but *if* pro level fighters fought outside the ring you would get that energy level (and more)…it’s just that pro fighters use a ring, gloves, and modified rules because it’s required as a “sport”…and, so they don’t get thrown in jail for assault.

    So to their credit, these particular girls illustrate an excellent base skill level and aggression for MMA fighting (with some training)..and could likely beat a number of female ring fighters with less experience.

    RA

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    Executioner
    Post subject: Re: re: here’s the deal on this fight…PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:09 am

    Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 1:48 pm
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    rick_alexio wrote:

    So to their credit, these particular girls illustrate an excellent base skill level and aggression for MMA fighting (with some training)..and could likely beat a number of female ring fighters with less experience.

    RA

    Don’t get me wrong, it is funny and entertaining to watch this.
    But which female ring fighters have less experience than them?
    Every pro in kickboxing or MMA would kick their ass, anytime, anywhere.
    There is no comparison between some streetfightgirl and girl who trains every day martial arts,kickboxing,MMA.

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    XcashXmoneyX
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:11 am
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    id fight em… 😈
    i guess as far as normal girls are judged on street credibility, those are some tough girls…
    their cardio sucks though.

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:07 am

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
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    XcashXmoneyX wrote:
    id fight em… 😈
    i guess as far as normal girls are judged on street credibility, those are some tough girls…
    their cardio sucks though.

    u can’t really judge their cardio from such a short fight.

    but who r u? 😀 let’s set this up…. 😆 these 2 girls are from San Diego (Chula Vista).

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    dude
    Post subject: Re: re: here’s the deal on this fight…PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:22 am

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
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    rick_alexio wrote:
    pro fighters use a ring, gloves, and modified rules because it’s required as a “sport”…and, so they don’t get thrown in jail for assault.
    RA

    assault can hardly be the reason:

    “Park rangers investigated the fight in which Craig was injured and said they will patrol the area more closely, especially after school. Craig’s case was presented to the Clay County prosecutor, but no charges were filed because both teens involved were willing combatants, Antonia reported.”

    When you have a mutual fight with 2 willing combatants, you MAY have disturbance of the peace (in a few locations, but not everywhere), but not assault. Doesn’t matter if fighters wear gloves or not.

    The gloves are there to protect hands, not for any legal reason…

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:50 pm

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    Outside the top ranked ring fighters there are *plenty* of mediocre women who’ve had little (if any) actual previous fight experience, walk into a dojo, get some training, and can get lined up for a ring fight with an equally inexperienced mediocre fighter…so just because she steps in a ring certainly does *not* automatically make her a great fighter by any means.

    There’s still not a lot of depth in pro women’s MMA…you have the same small handful of top fighters dominating, most with only 15 or less actual fights…and even of those, we’ve just seen that anyone can be beaten on a given night, Howe, Montoya, etc…

    While there are non-ring fighters with 50+ fights…and although training is fundamental, nothing can replace actual fight experience. In other words, the ‘potential’ for much greater parity and (entertaining) quality fights in women’s MMA has not even come close to being realized.

    RA

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    waddup
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:04 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:35 pm
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    Oh my first post, what shall it be?
    Now pro women MMA, well they put on a brave face in the ring, but in a real girl fight without rules they’d get their :youknowwhat: kicked big time no doubt. Have you seen that Hook”n”shoot revolution film? In my opinoin it’s well worth your money, great movie. You think those girls are tough right, then you download something like “topless catfight-good.mpeg” 17.867KB from the net and you just realize how brutal a girlfight can be if you just get rid of all those rules that hold them back.
    If you’re a MMA girlfighter and you need some inspiration for your next fight, you might get that inspiration from “Catfight – Women Ultimate Extreme Fighting Sveta-M Vs Olena-K.mpg” 7.47MB of the net and bear witness to hardcore fighters sparring in the ring. Long live the Edonkey network. Beautiful.

    By the way I recommend buying the “BSA-272 Take that!”, movie, in addition to Hook”n”shoot revolution. Here’s an outtake from the filmdescribtion : Four very aggressive fights for the hardcore fan. At BSA, you know there’s going to be a real grudge fight when the other girls crowd round to watch. Both Lessja and Svetlana have won boxing / kick-boxing championships at world level,,,,,,,This is extremely brutal and skillful fighting. It had to be stopped due to injury, but the loser immediately insisted on a rematch to follow a few days later. The second fight was even more desperate but just produced a winner, albeit so even it could have gone either way. The third item is a brutal fight between two very aggressive young women as the winner literally punches the will to fight out of the brain of the poor loser……..

    MMA girls are good fighters sure, but they have rules protecting them during fights, without rules they’d get whipped. 😛

    Last edited by waddup on Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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    greatlaughter
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:26 pm
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    This is the first time I’ve ever just wanted to swear at somebody on the forum.

    Any of us girls would take on a self proclaimed street fighter who challenged us to no rules. There’s a reason we like NHB. And no body smiles when the ref announces ‘no elbows’ or whatever.

    Get tossed, ya wad. 😈

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    waddup
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:50 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:35 pm
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    “Any of us girls would take on a self proclaimed street fighter who challenged us to no rules.”

    Sorry to hear that, you shouldn’t fight outside the arena you know, if you’re as good as you sound you could seriously hurt someone 🙄

    My am I glad i’m not standing in front of you right now, but I’m glad you spoke up, and I see why your’e getting all so defencive. 😉

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    greatlaughter
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:00 pm
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    Ok, ok, ok. So, I got a little defensive. Primarily I get POed when people post these kinds of fights on the forum. I don’t really enjoy watching people try to hurt each other – ironic, I know.

    It’s just that I’m a sucker for a challenge and someone saying a pro-fighter would get their butt kicked by a spaz sounds like a challenge.

    I don’t pick fights with anybody. I don’t even squish bugs. But there is no doubt in my mind that I, and most girls who have the ‘nuts’ to make to training to get our asses kicked by 200 lb guys on a nightly basis, have more than enough drive, heart, stamina and strenth to control and dominate your random catfighter

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:08 pm

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    Folks, let’s try not to get in one of these lame “street Vs ring” fighting debates…..it’s all individual.

    The only real differences are location and rules..both deserve respect depending on the ability of a given fighter. There are experienced street fighters who are very tough girls, some are not… there are experienced ring fighters who are very tough girls, some are not.

    And the BSA *are* well trained MMA ring submission fighters as well as street style “catfighters” …so there’s really no point in making an issue out of that either.

    RA

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    waddup
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:56 pm

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    : greatlaughter : Ok your points are valid, I understand how you feel. You seem allright to me and I’m sorry to have offended you, 8)

    : rick_alexio : It was a very civil debate,,,, going nowhere perhaps but civil. 🙄

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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:38 pm

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    This thread is “dude” trying to sell another video tape of “chickfights”. Watch how he conveniently mentions “By the way, you can purchase the full video by going here”. His main sales technique is bashing ringfights by calling them “boring”. This thread is a re-run. Dude’s participation on this forum is insulting.

    It is difficult to say what training those girls have had. If they have 3 older brothers who used to pick on them, then those sibling rivalries could have given them some fighting “instincts” to pull from.

    However, Rick Alessio, you speak about the womens MMA scene as though you have a map of it in your hands. Since most of female fights taking place in the world do not get any coverage, or they are taking place in Japan where we don’t hear about them, then I can’t really believe that you can be informed enough to make an educated assessment of the depth of the womens division. It appears that you are taking advantage of everyone’s ignorance of the women’s scene (since it gets so little coverage) by making a statement that nobody can really challenge. The truth is that NONE of us know the dept of the female fighting scene.

    Take Roxy for example…a relative unknown (except on this forum) who had competed a couple times in Japan and then comes to the U.S. to beat the #1 pound-for-pound female fighter in the world (by most people’s rankings). Turns out that she has 5-6 years of BJJ under her belt as well as Judo and Muay Thai training in the U.S. and Japan. There are lots of girls out there in the MMA scene whose fighting ability and name are still unknown.

    Also, take into account that most MMA promoters still consider female fighters a risk to their promotion. (Jeff Osbournce is the major exception…he’s a saint). Usually, if they get a slot then it is one fight at the beginning of the event before everyone shows up to fill the venue. For that reasons, promoters are not likely to accept girls that have no fighting ability. There are examples of female fighters getting fight opportunities because of their looks, but in almost all of those cases, those girls still trained and have improved with that training….thus making them legit fighters with legit skill.

    Those girls in that video showed heart and agressiveness. They both took punishment and kept fighting. One girl even showed a hint of guard work. But…don’t confuse those women with competition ring fighters. Those girls have little skill and somebody with blue-belt level BJJ could control them.

    What IS interesting about those fights is that it shows the instincts of an untrained fighter. Just DON’T call them “GOOD” fighters. Potential? Yes…sure…they have potential. Sign them up to a gym. Get them some training….but they are currently not good fighters.

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    greatlaughter
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:51 pm
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    Agreed, Waddup.

    Thanks!

    And you’re spot-on KnockOut2.

    I’m suprised we haven’t heard from Tera on this thread yet. Lord help us (or atleast ‘dude’).

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:06 am

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    KO, there are a number of points to consider here…

    Exposure or not, you cannot convince me that the depth of women’s MMA is greater than it actually is. It’s simply *nowhere near* men’s MMA or women’s boxing for that matter…and you can’t manufacture more fights than are on fighters records.

    Point is, even the top ranked fighters don’t have that many fights under their belts, so why would I be concerned about any lesser ranked sub par fighters just because they may have a few more fights in Japan…

    And the girls on this particular clip are certainly not the toughest female streetfighters out there, however, they do show enough experience and aggression to beat a number of ring fights with less real fight experience.

    Like I said, there are a number of trained ring fighters who are mediocre in terms of “intangibles” like natural aggression, punching power, instinct, experience, etc….being a “blue belt” in learned skill level won’t keep them from getting their asses kicked or compensate for actual fight experience.

    Also, what rules would be used? A ring fighter with little street experience could be at a great disadvantage..just as a street fighter would be in the ring under those rules. What if the rules were no sub holds/locks…only standup fist fight rules…could be a whole different ball game.

    Even on the men’s side, where the skill level is *clearly* greater… Kimbo/Gannon put to rest the notion that an experienced street fighter could easily do well (or defeat) an experienced ring fighter. And on the women’s side that would be even more the rule, rather than the exception.

    And whether or not “dude” is selling anything, bottom line, I would have to agree that this particular fight, being that it’s pretty evenly matched aggression and skill-wise, exceeds a large number of one-sided pro ring fights in terms of action and entertainment value. A good fight is still a good fight whether in the ring or out.

    RA

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:24 am

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    Link below: What an experienced street fighter can do to a trained MMA ring fighter….

    RA

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    Executioner
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:08 am

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    No offence Rick, do you have any experience what sacrifices professional fightingsports have?

    You’re talking about some streetgirls that supposed to have 50 fights experience???
    I doubt that, and if they have that experience, they still would get submitted or lose by decision.
    Did they ever trained BJJ/Grappling/Wrestling?
    Do they know how to submit somebody?
    Hell no….
    It’s not that I don’t like those streetfights, I find them often cool and funny, but people please be realistic….

    Kimbo would be nothing in a K-1 or Pride or UFC.
    Just a streetfighter that only got power and NO SKILLS.
    It’s all about technique and dedication in this sport.
    Does a streetfight girl know to train 6 days a week and have dedication to come that far as the professionals?
    I don’t think so, otherwise she would be in fightingsports scene.
    Here you’ve got the whole answer.

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    holddown
    Post subject: agree with the executionerPostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:49 am

    Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:59 am
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    the photo is actually of the winner of the fight and is a good example of a streetfighter against some one with technique.

    a street fighter will wail away as hard as she or he can bare fisted to the head. what is the chance of a knockout? not very good.

    a fighter with training will always work the body where much more serious damage can be done. even in some of the fights here. they get a mount or partial mount and try for the head. won’t work and doesn’t.

    ask any good striker. body body body body.

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    greatlaughter
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:14 am
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    and a trained ground fighter will force it down and break a limb or choke their opponent. wrestling, take wrestling, if you can control your opponent you can impose your will upon them.

    you guys are talking like profighters are abscent of instint. a fighter does what is neccessary to win a fight, whether it’s working the body, limb or neck attacks.

    do you guys have any formal training in jiu-jitsu or anything?

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:24 am

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    You are missing my point. I have a very high respect for all trained ring fighting, particularly combined arts and bjj..and have been involved in Martial Arts myself since I was 9 years old.

    However, a knowledgeable ring fighter should always respect the roots of streetfighting and the importance of actual fight experience and *real life* self defense application outside the ring.

    The point is that Kimbo *certainly* was no walkover for Gannon as some of you would like to paint a broad picture…it was very close and he could have easily won against a (larger) trained MMA ring fighting champion and pro boxer.

    Again, we are talking *experienced* street fighter not some average girl who has gotten into a couple haipulling “cat spats”…and the girls in this clip are not at all representative of the toughest female streetfighters.

    But there absolutely are much tougher “female Kimbos” out there who do have 50+ fights experience and fought tons of times growing up. And that kind of experience *is* a form of training and translates into a formidable opponent for any less experienced ring trained fighter.

    And again, it also can depend on what rules are used…if you eliminate submission ground techniques from the equation, the tricks of MMA, and just go with straight up fist fight style…the situation can change in a big way…Kimbo was no “walk in the park” for Gannon.

    RA

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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:59 am

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    “Kimbo/Gannon put to rest the notion that an experienced street fighter could easily do well (or defeat) an experienced ring fighter”

    That is inaccurate. Gannon himself said that Kimbo had boxing skill, not just street agression. Gannon posted that on the MMA.TV forum. Kimbo has a brother who is a professional boxer. Kimbo is not “untrained”. He is NOT simply a street fighter. They used that “streetfighter” thing to hype the fight. Sure, he fought in “street” fights, but he has had boxing training.

    I think ANY blue belt level BJJ girl…whether they have a “fighter” mentality or not, could control either of those two girls on the ground…as long as they are anywhere near their weight.

    Also, you mentioned “what about the rules?”. Well, if you are suggesting that the rules are a standup fight only, then you would introduce someone who trains in standup only. Girls that train in Muay Thai. Not all MMA fighters train very much in standup. Sometimes they have such a strong base in BJJ that they don’t focus on standup (a mistake. but if they win MMA fights, then they deserve those wins).

    Those girls in that particular video have little to no standup skill. How do I know this? Because both of them were totally content with taking it the ground as soon as they engaged….where they could utilize hair pulling, smothering, and pinning techiniques (I use the word “techniques” loosely).

    1 punch can end a fight.
    Anyone with some aggression can throw a KO punch.
    Don’t confuse this with skill.

    The average Joe WANTS to think that streetfighting can produce a skilled fighter. The truth is, the best “Streetfighters” have training on the side, but they just don’t mention it. It doesn’t sell as much as “Streetfighter” does. Take Tank Abbot, for example. That man has trained in Boxing and wrestling since he was in High School. He has talked (bragged) about it in interviews. Yet, so many people think that he was a pure “Streetfighter” when he stepped into the octagon. You believe what you want to believe.

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    scarce
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:04 am
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    ,,thats funny……….a street fighter will wail away..for a knockout…
    …..that is so true///back in high school…thats all i did was wail away…..for the win……but since 93…..i have respect for mma/
    …and the wail away street fighting is obselete?……
    …i fight in the streets.
    …but i use mma technique….not wail away garbage
    …cause anyone can wail away…..hoping for a knockout…ha ha//

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    Anystylist
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:27 am

    Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:47 pm
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    Quote:
    Again, we are talking *experienced* street fighter not some average girl who has gotten into a couple haipulling “cat spats”…and the girls in this clip are not at all representative of the toughest female streetfighters.
    But there absolutely are much tougher “female Kimbos” out there who do have 50+ fights experience and fought tons of times growing up. And that kind of experience *is* a form of training and translates into a formidable opponent for any less experienced ring trained fighter.

    Rick A.,

    Where would one find such experienced female streetfighters?

    You may find this hard to believe, but I have never personally witnessed two F’s streetfighting even at the skill level of the two combatants in the vidclip. I’ve heard about it, sure, but given that I’ve always lived in big cities, you would think that the law of averages would have thrown at least one hardcore F/F streetfight my way.

    Perhaps it’s the crowd I hang with, I don’t know. And I’ve heard stories of such tough girls. But the very few times I’ve had enough info to launch an investigation, my search proved fruitless.

    Which brings me back to my question. Where are they–all in the ghetto/barrios? Underground for $$? Is there a strong ‘survival bias’ such that the consistent winners get into real MA while those who lose a couple times avoid it altogether?

    Any info would be appreciated.

    BTW, I agree with you that sufficient experience itself constitutes a form of training, which is more effective than traditional dojo training in handling the psychological pressures of no-safety-net fighting but less effective at imparting sound technique as we on this board use the term.

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:01 am

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    ko, I agree with you and that’s my point…plenty of good streetfighters have had at least *some* form fight training or experience…that’s why these broad generalizations of “streetfighters” are inaccurate.

    but again, I’ve also seen so-called “trained” female MMA fighters get into a ring and look mediocre…at best. They may be trained but they seriously lacked things like natural instinct, aggression, and fight experience. And even though these girls in the clip are not the best streetfighters I *still* think they could overwhelm many lesser experienced trained MMA ring fighters.

    Martial arts training and stepping through some ring ropes are not an automatic license to being a good fighter by any means…and all “blue belts” are not alike. Without *real life* applicable fight experience and natural instinct/aggression they could easily be “blue belts waiting to get their asses kicked.”

    That’s what separates the top fighters from the rest…and, when any fighter ring or otherwise demonstrates those kinds of assets they deserve respect. And I don’t really give a jack about location – a good fighter is a good fighter no matter where they are. Would these girls be better with serious training?…of course, and that’s what I’d like to see happen.
    It’s girls like this who would be ideal recruits for the growth and the future of the sport.

    And to answer AS….yes, there are actually *tons* of tough experienced girls out there…and they can come from every class and area, not only the “hood”…I also grew up around those circles. For example, the girls in the clip are from the more “upscale” SD (San Diego) area.

    Keep in mind that there are literally 1000’s of fights like this which happen every day you just don’t hear about it because there’s been very little exposure other than a news article here or there…but now, since there so many vidcams everywhere you’re starting to see more and more clips like this surfacing.

    RA

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    go
    Post subject: take both ?PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:13 pm

    Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 11:09 am
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    does anyone here think a mma women fighter, say erin toughill, you think she can take both at the same time ?

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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:20 pm

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
    Posts: 439
    Location: Louisville, KY
    lol

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:49 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    lol

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:49 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    Hmmm, how would they do? The third girl who jumped in has ring potential.

    Funny, what is a “real” girl fight, I seriously have know idea what you are talking about. People are throwing around the term “streetfight” but I don’t know what defination you mean but it sounds like you mean some kinda bully or somebody who can’t reason their way out of trouble and resorts to violence. Fighting like that is just STUPID. Why the hell would I want to do that? Especially when I have a very good attorney.

    This is a sport to me something I do for fun, to test my skill against another.

    Some fans just want to see a BLOODSPORT or something.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:52 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    It’s just easier to read this long ass post if I break it up.

    And another thing:
    The only streetfighters I’ve met, not counting bar fights when people get really stupid and grew beer muscles and think they are tough defenders of their weak egos, are gang bangers.

    What I saw on that clip looked like agressive cat fighting. It was entertaining to watch because they were just wailing away at each other out of anger with no skill. The best part was when the third girl jumped in and ambushed the other girl.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:54 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    A streetfight to me is “anything” goes. Chains, 2 by 4’s, baseball bats, biting, eye gouging, crow bars, knives, and of course any hardware like 9mm’s. And what is a streetfight with out a nice dark back alley with garbage cans and hard pavement to crush a skull against.

    How far you wanna go – how “real” you wanna get? Real fighters know better than to use their hands in a real fight.

    If you honestly believe the women fighters on this site are not tough even to hold their own, fine, you are entitled to your opinion. But you live in a dream world not based on reality and you really have know idea of the hard conditioniong fighters go through, male or female.

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    Lil Katai
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:59 pm
    Pro Fighter

    Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 1:24 am
    Posts: 426
    Location: Detroit, Michigan
    Ok, I have seen this video before and also watched what I could of it from the link given. HOWEVER, I dunno, but for some reason, this video dont like to play all the way through for me. SO, is it just me or is anyone else havent this problem as well?? 😡

    I personaly dont like their style of fighting. But of course, I dont like the style of a lot of people fighters. Street or pro. Reason behind this is because they never allow space between themselves. When you watch females fight, a lot of them come right out and are all over each others face. I cant stand this. Im more of a stand offish fighter that needs space. SO, any time in the future that I fight anyone from this forum, you will know one thing that drive me nuts. 😉

    From what I did see of the video, there where a lot of good strikes. One that really stood out was the elbow to the face just before they went to the ground. One thing I DID NOT LIKE was the hair pulling!! Whats up with bitchas ‘n’ pulling hair!!!??? 😡

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:01 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    Cat fights always have hair pulling. The producers like that or something.

    Waz up Marie!

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:25 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    Now there’s another big misconception…

    There are *many* times when you have a much more valid/righteous reason to fight outside the ring Vs inside. For example, do you think prize money is a more nobel reason than abuse of a woman or child or anyone else??? Of course not…and there are dozens of other better reasons…self defense in general, being bullied, many times it’s a “right of passage” or many girls simply want to test each other same as the ring/cage. I bounced for a number of years a saw plenty of the “stupidity” end of fights but more times than not there are more righteous reasons than for meney or “sport”…

    And do you realize how many “authentically tough” ring fighters made their bones outside the ring first? Ring fighting is simply a way to do it legitimately and get paid for it. NHB/MMA has struggled with this for years and is still considered somewhat “underground” in many areas. It just sounds good for marketing/regulatory purposes to distance itself from “street”….but, I’m not going to kow tow to “political correctness” on a message board…now, if I were promoting an event and marketing was an issue that would be another story.

    What Erin or anyone could or could not do is speculation until they actually fight. In this case she out-sizes both girls considerably, and they are much younger school girls…but there are much bigger, tougher, fighters out there who could no doubt give her a harder fight than some ring fighters she’s been in against. Many were saying the same kinds of things about Gannon/Kimbo but it was bullshit when it came to the reality of the fight…

    RA

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:12 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    As for the “violence” issue…you might have picked the wrong sport if that is a problem for you…this is the “Hurt Business”…

    In reality, ring fighting (particularly in boxing) is actually *more* brutal and damaging to a fighter. Gloves and rounds were developed to ‘extend’ the fight…the longer the fight the more serious (long-term) damage can occur…and, the concussive force of the added glove can be even greater. Of course, that is excluding secondary weapons use even though that’s also historically part of the Martial Arts as well.

    So ring fighting (with the gloves, outfits, rules, etc)..are designed to give the “illusion” that it’s more antiseptic looking “sport” so that it’s more widely acceptable. And I think it’s important that it’s represented that way but it’a also important to keep it real when it comes to the reality of what it is…”fighting”

    RA

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:36 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    Lil Katai wrote:

    From what I did see of the video, there where a lot of good strikes. One that really stood out was the elbow to the face just before they went to the ground. 😡

    Nice catch btw, Marie…many folks missed that inside elbo…most also missed the weapons being used…it was a lame unecessary chump move, but if you look closely, Becca (the latino brunette) has a fist packer (bic lighter)..as does her homegirl who sucker-jumped Lindsay from behind…

    RA

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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:13 pm

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
    Posts: 439
    Location: Louisville, KY
    The “elbow” was a sloppy punch.

    Image

    She’s lucky that even made contact. The punches thrown before and after that little clip were sloppy arm punches, many of which were aimed at the back and top of the girls head (while being barefisted….brilliant idea!)

    I want to disect this video clip. I think the “agression” of the interaction is taking focus. In the fight, there was a lot going on, but nothing really happening.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:46 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    Brian is right on the money again.

    Whoaa rick_alexio, let me address that in more detail in a bit but my initial reaction is: BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:54 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    rick_alexio – I’m trying to follow your post but it’s hard to follow your reasoning and the bits that I do get I’m busting out laughing at the absurdity of it all.

    rick-lesso says: “There are *many* times when you have a much more valid/righteous reason to fight outside the ring Vs inside.” HUH??? Whaaaaa?? A fight outside the ring is ILLEGAL.

    rick says: “For example, do you think prize money is a more nobel reason than abuse of a woman or child or anyone else??? What the HELL kind of an attempt of a comparison is THAT? It’s a terrible leading question which you make it even worse in that PATHETIC attempt to answer your own rhetoric.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:58 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    IT PAINS ME TO REPEAT IT but to continue, rick_alexio says: Of course not…and there are dozens of other better reasons…self defense in general, being bullied, many times it’s a “right of passage” or many girls simply want to test each other same as the ring/cage.

    WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Better reasons to do what – fight ILLEGALLY? How about this scenario – Rick standing before the judge handcuffed says “well, your honor, I busted that guys nose and broke his fingers because he called me a bad name and was being a BIG bully. I fought for honor.” What sentence do you think the judge will give you after he and the entire court LAUGHS at your silly ass? That is a rhetorical question by the way so you really don’t have to answer because any ADULT reading this gets the point I’m making. “Right of passage” -PLEASE.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:06 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    This is the year 2004, we have a legal system in place for settling disputes. Gone are the days of asking someone to “step outside” to protect the honor of yourself or loved one.

    In 2004 No Holds Barred fighting has evolved. If you want to keep it underground, more power to ya.

    Yes you are correct in pointing out that there have been “pro” fighters who got their start as street brawlers but every single one eventually got some “skills” and cross trained. There is a reason that boxing is called the “sweet science”. Natural talent only takes you so far.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:11 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    Erin T. does not need anyone to speak for her and I won’t do that but don’t even try to back peddle away from that one especially after what was said by waddup. rick_alexio says: “but there are much bigger, tougher, fighters out there who could no doubt give her a harder fight than some ring fighters she’s been in against.” IF THIS IS TRUE TELL US WHERE YOU ARE HIDING THESE TOUGH FIGHTERS, everyone knows she has been searching for a mma fight here in the states. TELL THEM TO STEP IN THE RING, STOP HIDING THEM FROM US!!!!!

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:15 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    lol…

    del…it’s your option to enjoy or advocate anything you wish, that’s life.

    But you should really research self defense and mutual combatant law. If someone attacked you or your child, raped your wife, I suppose you would just tell them…”well, let’s take it up in the ring where everything is legal.”

    Give me a break, guy…

    And ko, we could easily dissect any number of missed ring fight punches as well, doesn’t mean much, ring fighters miss too…but it was a nice inside elbo that downed an experienced young streetfighter. Just as some trained ring fighters are excellent, some couldn’t punch their way out of a paper bag on a rainy day even *with* tons of training…so it’s not really an issue….

    RA

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:18 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    Oh, and del, what about non-regulated “underground” NHB/MMA…is/was that automatically *so much* worse simply because a given license may not have been approved? Let’s be realistic now… 🙄

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:19 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    give you a break “guy”???

    I’m not a guy.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:21 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    oh and rick_alexio I teach self defense and a number of other traditional martials arts besides being a mma fighter. ((j/a))

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:22 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    and stop interrupting me while I reply to your lame troll job.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:25 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    Erin T. does not need anyone to speak for her and I won’t do that but don’t even try to back peddle away from that one especially after what was said by waddup. rick_alexio says: “but there are much bigger, tougher, fighters out there who could no doubt give her a harder fight than some ring fighters she’s been in against.” IF THIS IS TRUE TELL US WHERE YOU ARE HIDING THESE TOUGH FIGHTERS, everyone knows she has been searching for a mma fight here in the states. TELL THEM TO STEP IN THE RING.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:42 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    Bwah ha ha.

    rick_alexio how would you know that the”inside elbow that downed an experienced young streetfighter”? Hmmmmm, you’ve revealed yourself.

    You also revealed that you don’t know who I am and you clearly don’t know who Erin T. is or you would not have made those comments. So you really know VERY LITTLE about the current scene of women mma fighters and have exposed yourself as just trying to pimp your “young experienced streetfighters” into the legit fight scene!!!!!!

    LAME

    troll

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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:04 pm

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
    Posts: 439
    Location: Louisville, KY
    Ok….
    I slowed down and added commentary to the video clip to explain the way that I saw it. Here is my version of it.

    It is 9.3MB filesize
    Windows Media Format.

    Enjoy!

     

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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:10 pm

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
    Posts: 439
    Location: Louisville, KY
    As you’ll see (Rick)…the “elbow” (aka : sloppy punch) didn’t drop the girl. She was shoved…and she didn’t even go down. Her hands stopped her from falling over. Neither of those girls were hurt by the other one.

    btw, I’m curious to know how you know these girls names (Becca and Lindsay?) and how did you know that the latino girl (btw, it’s latina) had a lighter in her hand? You can’t tell that from the video.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:15 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    KnockOut2

    Don’t take the bait.

    He is looking for A) getting his “girls” fights or B) luring legit fighters into underground fights.

    How have you been?

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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:39 pm

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
    Posts: 439
    Location: Louisville, KY
    I think they’re just trying to peddle videos.

    I’m doing good. I’m REALLY busy lately 🙂 Got the Kickboxing TV show thing cooking on the back burner. I’ve got a few other website projects going on (one of which involves someone who participates a lot on this forum :P)

    Good to see you back on fightergirls, Del 🙂

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:44 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    Ahhh…”website projects and kickboxing TV thingy’s” …and who’s concerned about peddling…lol

    And please don’t assume…I’m actually involved in promoting MMA ring fights (amongst other events)…

    But hey, if you and del are so disinterested in the topic then how about skipping the threads you aren’t and participating in those which you are…

    RA

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:53 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    Oh, and you can tell by the video, and the elbo did land…you evidently just took the time to slo-mo a fight you aren’t even interested in..and, *still* missed both factors… 😮

    RA

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:41 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    And to del…

    I’m not really sure where you’re coming from here…

    I said nothing negative to you and *never* mentioned Erin…you did. I’m simply commenting on a subject/clip about fighting girls in a public forum.
    And I’m an extreme advocate of MMA I just also happen to repect all forms and formats of reality fighting.

    Actually, very few tough females out there *automatically* gravitate into MMA, I merely said girls like this are ideal candidates to train and enter the sport. Getting them into the ring and channeling that energy into something that is more “legit”…

    Someone named “holddown” (who I have no Idea of) posted the link and started the thread, this is *not* my video. But who cares either way, it’s not a video of golf it’s “fightergirls”…hell, it will only attract more people to even better fighting such as HooknShoot. Look at the interest spike that Ganon/Kimbo caused, it’s gotten some of the highest download numbers above many traditional ring MMA fights.

    I am interested in your take on the issues and would enjoy rapping about it, but I would appreciate you and/or ko not going on the attack or making assumptions…

    Thanks,

    RA

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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:26 am

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
    Posts: 439
    Location: Louisville, KY
    whoa
    I didn’t conveniently mention any website addresses of mine. The two services I mentioned above aren’t even ready yet. I was just answering Del’s question.

    I disagree about the elbow. It was a punch that slipped. The elbow made contact with her neck, but it did no damage. Nothing that either girl did had any effect on the other one. Even the punches that “landed” were so weak (arm punches) that they had no effect.

    I never said I’m disinterested in this topic. I’m interested in making my point on this topic, which is what I am doing.

    I’ll tell you what I am interested in : supporting professional female fighters. Dude peddling this crap on here takes away from that. I’m 100% positive that Dude is trying to sell his “chick fight” videos on here. For all I know, Holddown is his friend. It is also difficult to believe that you don’t have some sort of connection to the sale of these videos.

    I still don’t see the bic lighter in the video. I’ve obviously scrutinized it quite a bit. Give me a clue where to look.

    Why and how do you know these girls names?

    “Look at the interest spike that Ganon/Kimbo caused, it’s gotten some of the highest download numbers above many traditional ring MMA fights.”

    You really think that fight does good things for MMA? Did you read that article about the “Cop” (Gannon) who competed in “no holds barred” fighting? That was VERY bad press for MMA. That fight wasn’t even an MMA fight. It is fuel for the negative press coverage for MMA. It is very sad. That fight was very sad.

    These fight clips of female weekend warriors do not do good things for professional female fighters. “Chick fight” videos suck. I give these girls a little bit of respect for showing agression, but honestly…they aren’t really fighters. According to you, one of them used a weapon (bic lighter) and another friend jumped in the fight. Half of the time, they were pulling hair. I don’t think they knew WHAT they were doing. Sure, they are “fighting”, but they aren’t REALLY fighters. You gotta have skill to be thought of as a REAL fighter in most people’s eyes. If my grandmother got in a “fight” with someone, I wouldn’t call her a “fighter”.

    Those girls don’t have skill. That elbow was a missed punch. The fact that it made contact at all was only because the punch missed and the other girl was moving foward at the same time. The contact that it did make caused NO damage. How can you NOT see that?

    “I merely said girls like this are ideal candidates to train and enter the sport. ”

    I merely remember you saying a bit more than that. I remember you comparing these “chick fighters” to legit MMA fighters, and claiming that the MMA talent pool was shallow. Should I quote you?

    Are you really a promoter? I’m sorry, but you appear about as sketchy as anyone can on a forum. You show up on these “chick fight” video threads hyping these non-skilled fighters. You don’t appear as someone who is supportive of MMA, or especially female MMA fighting, until the end of the thread where you throw in “Oh yeah, by the way, I support MMA fighters” as though it makes up for the rest of what you said.

    “I’m actually involved in promoting MMA ring fights (amongst other events)…”

    I’m guessing “foxy boxing” is one of those other events.

    Hey Rick…don’t complain that we’re on the offensive. I think many of the things that you’ve said can be taken as offensive to many people on this forum. You choose your battles by the words you post. You should expect this type of reaction to the stuff that you say.

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: re: back to the fight…PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:34 am

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    so, ko…no offense intended earlier you seemed to be on target with some of your assessments……but now it’s *clear* (from the video) there are fist packers in both hands…

    Now, I could get into posting vid loops and such to show that the elbo landed, but trust me, a quick flowing shot like that on the chin can throw anyone’s eq off for a few seconds, that’s all it takes…she was going down and the extra shove came in, but she recovered quick and came back strong…

    But del, girl..:) You say you’re trippin’ a bit at a non-ring fight but that the girl with the jacked move from behind was cool???

    You should be ashamed of yourself…j/k *wink*

    RA

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:18 am

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    ko, fair enough…I can understand your reasoning there.

    I will herby say that I categorically disagree with “dude” on this issue and *that’s* why I made a point to comment on this thread. One of the most insulting things was/are the comments by some that MMA fighters are not as blah blah blah because they are protected by the ring, rules, etc…and what I originally said was…”…*if* pro level fighters fought outside the ring you would get that energy level (and much more)…it’s just that pro fighters use a ring, gloves, and modified rules because it’s required as a “sport”…etc.”

    But at the same time, you’re taking your feud with “dude” out on the roots of MMA, much of which were non-ring based. Generalizing and relating good fighters to your grandma is far fetched and you know it, like I said, many of the best ring fighters came from that background..and my points regarding that were valid. And I specifically agreed that the girls in that clip were not representative of the best female street fighters, I’ve known much tougher girls, but for their age, stage, and experience they are a couple of ‘good’ little fighters…and I stand by that.

    RA

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    dl_angel
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:24 am

    Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:49 pm
    Posts: 150
    Location: Austin, Texas
    Quote:
    Someone named “holddown” (who I have no Idea of) posted the link and started the thread, this is *not* my video. But who cares either way, it’s not a video of golf it’s “fightergirls”…hell, it will only attract more people to even better fighting such as HooknShoot.

    Sigh… the sport already has enough jerks whistling from the crowds. Don’t know if we want to attract those sorts of people.

    Anyhow- women have to fight for respect in EVERY area of their lives, why not add this area to it too? We have to put up with guys whistling at us and waiting for us to pull each other’s hair for how long before it can be a legitimate sport? 😕

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    greatlaughter
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:01 am
    Pro Fighter

    Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:15 pm
    Posts: 259
    Location: Petaluma, CA
    aint that the truth.

    A great moment: At my fight, after the show I was being a little rude and standing up watching my guy, Nick Diaz fight Jeremy Jackson. and someone behind me yelled, ‘Hey sweetcheeks, sit down!.’ And I turned around and the guy next to him said totally seriously, ‘dude, you better show some respect, she just got outta that cage.’
    And the guy was all…’oh, sorry.’

    But it’s funny that before I was just a girl in tight jeans. So, there is some respect for folks that step up & it’s not the condescending sort either.

    anybody know what i mean?

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    XcashXmoneyX
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:06 am
    Pro Fighter

    Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:15 am
    Posts: 236
    Location: Dayton, Ohio
    like i said, theyre tough on the street…
    but some of these people on here are acting like we women have only been in ringfights or tournaments, like we’ve never dismantled some poor sucker on the street.
    streetfighting is the reason i was shuttled off to martial arts lessons when i was 15. it was like my moms last great crusade for discipline…look where it led me! also, read the old interview (i believe its sherdog, correct me if im wrong) with Debi…fighting has been a way of life for a LOT of us for a LONG time.
    and yeah, i was tough as hell in an apartment complex parkinglot and hardcore concerts…when i stepped on the mat it was a RUDE AWAKENING.
    and granted, ive seen some women fight in the ring that look like theyve never slugged it out anywhere but in a bar…but those arent the best examples of womens’ mma.
    i probably have a fight in january…when its over ill post the video and you all can hold a poll on how any one (or all three) of those girls would contend with me. sorry, im not trying to be smile, im just being a realist.
    none of those girls could touch any of the girls posting on here…

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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:04 pm

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
    Posts: 439
    Location: Louisville, KY
    Rick, I’m sorry but I don’t own the DVD and I wasn’t aware of that picture being posted online anywhere. That video capture was taken directly from the DVD, not the video clip that is online. Here is that same frame of action from the video file that was posted on this thread.

    Image

    As you can see, the quality is shitty. It is difficult to tell that there is anything in her hands, let alone a bic lighter.

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:00 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    XcashXmoneyX wrote:
    ive seen some women fight in the ring that look like theyve never slugged it out anywhere but in a bar…but those arent the best examples of womens’ mma.

    Some good points all the way around. And like I said, those girls in the clip are also not anywhere near the best example of street fighters, but, they do match-up pretty evenly and it’s part of this “caught on video” reality TV craze which is why I think the clip has gotten so much hype all over the web.

    It’s always great to see young women like yourself (who were once similar to these girls) entering the sport, that was my original point. There is still not nearly the depth that there should be in women’s MMA. It’s still a relatively young sport and doesn’t get the exposure that it deserves yet so it’s understandable. But basically, you have a small group of elite fighters at the top, a number of young good looking up-and-comers, and the rest at or below the fighting level of the girls in the clip. The lack of depth forces to fight out of their weight classes and kickboxing/MMA even loses some of their better fighters gravitating over to boxing for more fights and better $$$.

    And girls, don’t sweat a few whistles here and there..when you’re involved in a sport and are fairly attractive it comes with the territory, there’s an element of that in just about everything…and us guys have to deal with our share of psycho females out there as well…does anyone really believe that most of the females at an MMA show are there to observe the technical aspects of a joint-lock or guillotine choke….:)

    RA

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:31 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    ko, absolutely see what you mean now…there are a number of different quality clips of that fight floating around, some have the orig sound, and no way should you be expected to see/ascertain certain things from that quality vid…

    …so there were weapons and the elbo did land, but to agree with you, not that it was *that* devastating a blow either way…but to her credit, Lindsay powered through the weapons came back and dominated with the ground and pound flurry…it was a ‘cute’ fight, not great skills…but again, the kind of girls I would like to see in a dojo…

    RA

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:41 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    Hmmm, let me read what that cat rick_alexio dragged in today.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:05 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    First off I AM VERY interested in this thread and the heat will stay laser beamed on YOU rick_lexio because of your outrageously bogus comments.

    Here is why: the things you say insinuate that the women mma fighters aren’t “tough” enough to fight someone who fights outside the ring.

    That is the way I’m reading what you’re saying. To make it worse is you try to confuse the issue by mentioning completely unrelated stuff like physical assaults, “nobility”, and rites of passage whatever the hell that is.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:06 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    What really is disturbing to me is how you interchange the following terms and imply that they are all the same and people who particpate in them can be compared to each other:

    catfighting
    street fighting
    sport fighting
    “real” fights
    violence against women and children
    self defense
    bar brawls
    undergound fights

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:24 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    I thought this thread was asking opinions on how the vid fight would do in the ring then in turned into implying that women fighters don’t have “street” skills and would lose if they fight someone with street fights.

    So yes, you have insulted me and all the women fighters on this website. You don’t know the history and background of the women fighters who train evey day to be the best. AND you especially disrespect the creator of this website who has worked her ASS off to create a forum for woman fighters and came from the school of hard knocks back in the day. She and many women fighters here have personal history that would include some of the above so how DARE you come onto this site with your BULLSHIT.

    Again fighting outside the ring is stupid and ILLEGAL

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:34 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    rick_alexio you say stuff and don’t even remember what you are saying. Yeah you did mention Erin, go back and read the PATHETIC words you wrote.

    If YOU don’t know what you are talking about don’t except anyone reading that garbage to figure it out. Lay off what ever you’re on and SOBER UP.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:45 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    Why did I like the 3rd girl jumping in – because she was cunning, had a strategy to attack her opponent, effectively executed it, and dominated the other girl by taking her back, controlling and neutralizing the counter attacks whlie implementing her own very effective dare I say “punishment”.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:51 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    Heather- ha ha ha, that was a great example and I know exactly where you’re coming from.

    XcashXmoney – EXACTLY right. This guy has NO clue what “real” fight experiences some of the women fighters on this website have gone through. Some have shared it publicly, some haven’t , but I personally know 5 fighters who experienced domestic violence and some who have had a few brawls, and some who do underground stuff. But that is the past and certainly not the focus of their lives now. Debi Purcell trains with Marco Ruas who got the nickname “King of the Streets” not because it was cute and yeah she has openly talked about her misadventures of her youth. Look at her now, a highly skilled KICKASS PROFFESSIONAL fighter doing her damndest to evolve not only herself but the sport too. GOD BLESS AMERICA!

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:56 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    lol…ok, whatever…

    Del, you made my own point several times there…

    Exactly, Marco “King of the Streets” Ruas makes my point again…

    I stand by my words and they are valid points..

    YOU brought up Erin, go back and look,I merely responded by saying that I’ve known much tougher girls than those in the clip, and who I think could give her a tougher fight than they could…and it’s true..

    *How* you could respect some chump who blind-sides a girl from behind and beats her with a weapon (as a “cunning” move) tells me a lot about your nobility and mentality. And if you do actually believe that I would not hold much value to any of your other opinions, no matter who you know.

    With that said, I have tried to be civil with you but you’re evidently on some trip, or someone put you up to this as a “feeler”…and so this thread is played out for now…*wink*

    Ciao,

    RA

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:44 am

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    One final social work side-note to dl_angel…

    At an industry/house party awhile back we were all watching MMA ppv cards etc.on the big screen, and also played the same girl fight clip that is being mentioned here…interestingly, out of 70+ people the greatest reactions were for that clip and came from the females of the group who all really dug it.

    Again, to me the skill level was pretty sub-par but they all hooted and hollered it up…

    RA

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:58 am

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    One final social work side-note to dl_angel…

    At an industry/house party awhile back we were all watching MMA ppv cards etc.on the big screen, and also played the same girl fight clip that is being mentioned here…interestingly, out of 70+ people the greatest reactions were for that clip and came from the females of the group who all really dug it.

    Again, to me the skill level was pretty sub-par but they all hooted and hollered it up…

    RA

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:36 am

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    Ohh and yeah, Del…I have seen you fight now I remember.

    Pretty impressive, yes…but, regardless you will still lose much respect if you favor a 3rd girl jumping in like that when it’s *clearly* 1-on -1…her friend was getting beat in that position so she jumps in from behind…plus, she’s totally fresh and ‘needs’ a weapon?? That shows ZERO skill or cunning, sista…so you cannot be serious… 😛

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    scarce
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:22 am
    Fightergirls elite poster

    Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:31 pm
    Posts: 791
    ..knockout your video is funny as hell….i will now market that video….and rick ……you have made this a strong thread……i agree with you about marco ruas….and i wish every street fighter had marco ruas qualities…but many dont……no disrespect to rick…….this thread is great///

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    tofu
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:55 am

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:34 pm
    Posts: 32
    I was trying to think of why Rick Alexio sounded like a familier name. Does anyone remember the kickboxer who wore the Hawaiin grass trunks? What was his name? Dennis Alexio?

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    XcashXmoneyX
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:16 am
    Pro Fighter

    Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:15 am
    Posts: 236
    Location: Dayton, Ohio
    i must meet this Del Greer. she’s on the ball.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:41 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    ok, I need some background music to get in the mood to read and reply to the latest from rick_alexio.

    (((pops in Elephunk by the Black Eyed Peas)))

    Let’s get it started… And the bass keep runnin’ runnin’, and runnin’ runnin’, and runnin’ runnin’, and runnin’ runnin’, and
    runnin’ runnin’, and runnin’ runnin’, and runnin’ runnin’, and runnin’ runnin’, and…

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:05 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    In this context, there’s no disrespect, so, when I bust my rhyme, you break your necks.
    We got five minutes for us to disconnect, from all intellect collect the rhythm effect.
    Obstacles are inefficient, follow your intuition, free your inner soul and break away from tradition.
    Coz when we beat out, girl it’s pullin without.
    You wouldn’t believe how we wow shit out.
    Burn it till it’s burned out.
    Turn it till it’s turned out.
    Act up from north, west, east, south.
    Everybody, everybody, let’s get into it.
    Get stupid.
    Get it started, get it started, get it started.
    Let’s get it started (HA), let’s get it started in here.
    Let’s get it started (HA), let’s get it started in here.
    Let’s get it started (HA), let’s get it started in here.
    Let’s get it started (HA), let’s get it started in here.
    Yeah!

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:07 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    Lose control, of body and soul.
    Don’t move too fast, people, just take it slow.
    Don’t get ahead, just jump into it.
    Ya’ll here a body, two pieces to it.
    Get stutted, get stupid.
    You’ll want me body people will walk you through it.
    Step by step, like you’re into new kid.
    Inch by inch with the new solution.
    Transmit hits, with no delusion.
    The feeling’s irresistible and that’s how we movin’.

    Everybody, everybody, let’s get into it.
    Get stupid.
    Get it started, get it started, get it started.
    Let’s get it started (HA), let’s get it started in here.
    Let’s get it started (HA), let’s get it started in here.
    Let’s get it started (HA), let’s get it started in here.
    Let’s get it started (HA), let’s get it started in here.
    Yeah!

    Runnin’ runnin’, and runnin’ runnin’, and runnin’ runnin’, and runnin runnin’ and…

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:10 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    C’mon y’all, lets get WooHOO!
    Lets get WooHOO! (in here)
    Lets get WooHOO!
    Lets get WooHOO! (in here)
    Lets get WooHOO!
    Lets get WooHOO! (in here) Ow, ow, ow!
    Ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, YA…

    Let’s get ill, that’s the deal.
    At the gate, we’ll bring the bud top drill. (Just)
    Lose your mind this is the time,
    Ya’ll test this drill, Just and bang your spine. (Just)
    Bob your head like me APL de, up inside your club or in your Bentley.
    Get messy, loud and SICK.
    Ya’ll mount past slow mo in another head trip. (So)
    Come come then now do not correct it, let’s get IGNANT let’s get hectic.

    Everybody, everybody, let’s get into it.
    Get stupid. (Come on)
    Get it started (come one), get it started (yeah), get it started.
    Let’s get it started (HA), let’s get it started in here.
    Let’s get it started (HA, let’s get it started in here.
    Let’s get it started (HA), let’s get it started in here.
    Let’s get it started (HA), let’s get it started
    (woah, woah, woah) in here.
    Yeah.

    Lets get
    woohoo!
    Lets get
    woohoo! (in here)
    Lets get
    woohoo!
    Lets get
    woohoo! (in here)
    Lets get woohoo!
    Lets get woohoo! (in here) Ow, ow, ow!
    Ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, YA…

    Runnin’ runnin’, and runnin’ runnin’, and runnin’ runnin’, and runnin’ runnin’

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:37 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    a la lalalaa la la lala la la lalalaa la la lala
    you was foolin me once before
    but I tell ya
    there’s no foolin twice no more

    cuz when I open up my
    third eye third eye
    not getting away with murder

    yeah
    you was foolin me once before
    but I tell ya
    there’s no foolin twice no more

    so stop your oppression oppression
    check it out I gotta question a question

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:06 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    rick_alexio are you still squirmin’? Sorry can’t let you off the hook.

    No, I made MY point – which is someone who has brawled in the streets can only excel in the ring if they get additional SKILLS.

    I used Marco and Debi to illustrate MY point. They are not the same fighters they were “back in the day”, now they are PROFESSIONAL fighters. That’s my point.

    What is YOUR point? In ONE sentence please.
    Whenever you elaborate you get off point. You flip flop your positions, make horrendous comparisons, bad analogies, forget your own statements, rely on circular reasoning, and use incorrect definations for terms and concepts. You seem to be a smart guy but your communication is lousy. Not just in your attempt to express yourself but also in your inability to understand others.

    It’s like you are have attention deficit disorder, or something – or you’re drunk, drugged up, or just wacked. Did you ride the liittle yellow school bus to kindergarten?

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:26 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    Bwahahahaha, the more I read your spiel the less sense it’s making.
    Are we going to get into a “you said this, I said that” nonsense? YOU go back and look at your reference to Erin, look at who brought up her name and my response to it and knockout2’s response to it and then your statements. But we don’t have to go through all of that because you turn around and admit you mentioned her. ARE YOU ON DRUGS?

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    Anystylist
    Post subject: Is it really just one fixed pie?PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:28 pm

    Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:47 pm
    Posts: 67
    Location: Northeast
    First off, KO, kudos on your tape. You should send it in to ESPN as a demo. Maybe you can sell them on an MMA package with you as color commentator.

    Now, you say:
    Quote:
    I’ll tell you what I am interested in : supporting professional female fighters. Dude peddling this crap on here takes away from that

    But is every dollar spent on tapes by Dude or Rick (if he’s selling anything) a dollar that does not get spent watching any of the F’s on this board? Honestly, I don’t know if that’s true. Much marketing, and all charitable fundraising, runs off the opposite premise: someone who buys X is more likely to buy Y than someone who has never bought either.

    And DL, don’t sneer at the guys who wolf-whistle. The best revenge is putting them in $500 seats. Unless you want to keep MMA pure, virgin, and a narrow niche market.

    On to the next issue…

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    Anystylist
    Post subject: Rick, if amateur streetfighters are so plentiful…PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:44 pm

    Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:47 pm
    Posts: 67
    Location: Northeast
    …then we should be able to find some in our local neighborhoods, wouldn’t you say?

    As you replied to me:
    [/quote]yes, there are actually *tons* of tough experienced girls out there…and they can come from every class and area, not only the “hood”…..
    Keep in mind that there are literally 1000’s of fights like this which happen every day you just don’t hear about it because there’s been very little exposure other than a news article here or there…but now, since there so many vidcams everywhere you’re starting to see more and more clips like this surfacing.
    Quote:

    But, for example, if I scan the Yahoo forums looking for people setting up fights, I don’t get very far. Same if I start asking around in bars, it’s not productive. So, giving you credit for knowing this stuff, how does one gain access? Or is it really about offering to arrange/tape it yourself–i.e., going into business yourself?

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:44 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    but that’s not the purpose of this board

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    Anystylist
    Post subject: Oops, I got the quote backwardsPostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:46 pm

    Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:47 pm
    Posts: 67
    Location: Northeast
    …in the above post. The quote is my question, duh.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:46 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    to sell tapes and peddle illegal activities and you know this anystylist. you are just being a devil’s advocate here.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    GOOD QUESTION ANYSTYLIST!

    Last edited by Del on Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:50 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    ok I see it now

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:54 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    ok I re-read that stuff and see now.

    Would be interesting to hear what rick-alexio has for a response.

    Meanwhile, I think I switch cd’s. What should my background music be now…hmmm coldplay maybe?

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    Anystylist
    Post subject: The pool of F fighters is small at every levelPostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:02 pm

    Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:47 pm
    Posts: 67
    Location: Northeast
    Quote:
    At an industry/house party awhile back we were all watching MMA ppv cards etc.on the big screen, and also played the same girl fight clip that is being mentioned here…interestingly, out of 70+ people the greatest reactions were for that clip and came from the females of the group who all really dug it.

    Again, to me the skill level was pretty sub-par but they all hooted and hollered it up…

    So what does this suggest? Especially given Del’s rhetorical question to Rick about where he’s hiding all the good fighters?

    Rick’s right about the pool of female MMA talent being shallow, for all it’s quality at the top. But I’d go further and say that the pool of female fighting talent at any and all levels is shallow. I’m sure you’ve all heard of Pareto’s law–20% of the salesmen account for 80% of the sales, etc.? Well, in terms of F fighting, it’s probably more like 5%/95%.

    That’s why all the women at that party were cheering rather than doing what KO did. They didn’t have any fighting experience, so of course the tape looks awesome.

    Seriously, what percentage of the female population in, say, their 20s has even been in one fight like that? Any guesses, anyone?

    Sure, you can find 100 female streetfighters and 200 pro MMA fighters tougher than what’s on tape. But this is out of a pool of maybe 15 million women in their 20s? You calculate the percentages. Now contrast this to guys, where you can find a cadre of tough and skilled fighters every 5 miles.

    Point is, if the intake pool is shallow, the executive ranks are going to be even shallower. Conversely, the more amateur streetfighters you have (and girls in boxing, HS wrestling, etc.), the better the competition and skill at every level.

    Which leads to the next topic…

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    Anystylist
    Post subject: Sidebar to DelPostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:05 pm

    Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:47 pm
    Posts: 67
    Location: Northeast
    I have a couple more to go, so take your time with your CD collection.

    Anything with elliptic lyrics will do fine…

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:07 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    ANYSTYLIST:

    I really like what you are saying. True 100%.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:13 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    To address the last comment rick_alexio made to me:

    DEFINE nobility please. You throw that term around alot. I think fighting outside the ring, like in the video, is stupid. I see not one shred of nobility in doing that. Wasn’t that video suppose to be some kinda “streetfighting”? That’s what I thought it was portrayed as. In street fights you gotta pay to play. I wasn’t aware of some “rule” or boundaries of fair play in streetfighting let alone nobility.

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    Anystylist
    Post subject: Ladies, don’t be coy with your IRL stories…PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:19 pm

    Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:47 pm
    Posts: 67
    Location: Northeast
    Xcash said:
    Quote:
    but some of these people on here are acting like we women have only been in ringfights or tournaments, like we’ve never dismantled some poor sucker on the street…read the old interview (i believe its sherdog, correct me if im wrong) with Debi…fighting has been a way of life for a LOT of us for a LONG time…and yeah, i was tough as hell in an apartment complex parkinglot and hardcore concerts…when i stepped on the mat it was a RUDE AWAKENING.

    Del said:
    Quote:
    EXACTLY right. This guy has NO clue what “real” fight experiences some of the women fighters on this website have gone through. Some have shared it publicly, some haven’t , but I personally know 5 fighters who experienced domestic violence and some who have had a few brawls, and some who do underground stuff.

    Now this raises an interesting issue. If the pool of women with any fighting ability is small, what kind of props should we give to the BSBs (Bad Streetfighting Babes) on this board. On the other hand, if the pool is bigger than I think, is it wise to deride streetfighters as being unskilled?

    Ladies, granted that you didn’t have the great foresight to tape your old streetfights, how about some accounts? In particular, how would you assess your F competition? (I’m assuming you restricted your brawling to other F’s, which would be consistent with the fact that the ‘caught on tape’ videos don’t feature any mixed fights, as far as I’m aware.)

    Moreover, what about the intermediate level–the women/girls who are not streetfighters, but perhaps do serious training or, for example, white-collar boxing in gyms? Would they be tougher, or not?

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:26 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    ok I’ve got on Radiohead Kid A on in the background maybe it’ll mellow me out a bit.

    Bad Streetfighting Babes? hee hee hee
    [quote][/quote]

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:31 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    anystylist:

    Quote:
    Moreover, what about the intermediate level–the women/girls who are not streetfighters, but perhaps do serious training or, for example, white-collar boxing in gyms? Would they be tougher, or not?

    To say who would be tougher is impossible to determine. But I have seen from guys who are tough in the streets pick up a pair of 16oz and try to train with a boxer because they are gung-ho about getting in the ring but then they just give up in frustration. It was TOO hard. I would imagine its the same for BSB and why so few actually go legit. NO DISCIPLINE.

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    Anystylist
    Post subject: Time to wrap this upPostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:36 pm

    Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:47 pm
    Posts: 67
    Location: Northeast
    Cuz it’s late and all…

    Del, I’m happy you like what I’m saying, but I just want to check you on two things. First, while I agree with you that the third girl who jumped in showed some skill, what she did was wrong to the extent that streetfighting has any ethics or code to it. Someone jumps in to break up a fight, fine, but don’t start popping the other girl just cuz your friend’s taking punishment. If nothing else, that’s been known to start a full-scale riot if the other girl has her friends there.

    Still, I can only assume you were playing devil’s advocate to stir Rick up.

    Also, do you really think that a 9mm is acceptable in a streetfight? Generally, I call a fight with knives a knife fight, a fight with guns a gunfight, and a fight with automatic weapons or explosives a war. Which is how they settle clan disputes in Afghanistan, apparently.

    Again, I’m sure you’re making a rhetorical point there. At least I hope you are, because I was going to ask you where in CT you trained, seeing as how I’m down the road from you, and I’m not looking to get shot. 😉

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:41 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    ha ha ha!

    Very clever anystylist. First regarding:
    Quote:
    Ladies, granted that you didn’t have the great foresight to tape your old streetfights, how about some accounts? In particular, how would you assess your F competition? (I’m assuming you restricted your brawling to other F’s, which would be consistent with the fact that the ‘caught on tape’ videos don’t feature any mixed fights, as far as I’m aware.)

    Are you asking people to describe illegal activity?

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    Anystylist
    Post subject: Finally, greatlaughterPostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:42 pm

    Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:47 pm
    Posts: 67
    Location: Northeast
    Quote:
    A great moment: At my fight, after the show I was being a little rude and standing up watching my guy, Nick Diaz fight Jeremy Jackson. and someone behind me yelled, ‘Hey sweetcheeks, sit down!.’ And I turned around and the guy next to him said totally seriously, ‘dude, you better show some respect, she just got outta that cage.’
    And the guy was all…’oh, sorry.’

    But it’s funny that before I was just a girl in tight jeans. So, there is some respect for folks that step up & it’s not the condescending sort either.

    anybody know what i mean?

    So you turned around and said, in your best Travis Bickle voice, “you talkin’ to me?”

    Seriously, I hope you did sit down. Cuz if you didn’t, just to prove a point to the guy about you being a badass, where does that put you on the ethical continuum between the Roxy’s of the world and the video’s “third girl in”?

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    Anystylist
    Post subject: IS recounting streetfights legally hazardous?PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:48 pm

    Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:47 pm
    Posts: 67
    Location: Northeast
    Del, I’d say some of the fights that F here might recount are past the statute of limitations.

    Or maybe key details can be changed. “Your honor, she broke this bottle, then came after me…”

    But seriously, I doubt the lawyers from Lynch & Burnham are scanning this board looking for deep pockets to sue. I mean, given the size of the purses y’all fight for…

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:53 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    Second:

    My comments were based on what I’ve seen. Not that I advocate or suggest that it was right.

    regarding
    Quote:
    Generally, I call a fight with knives a knife fight, a fight with guns a gunfight, and a fight with automatic weapons or explosives a war. Which is how they settle clan disputes in Afghanistan, apparently

    Exactly! My intention was to show the absurdity of ric-alexio’s usage of fighting terms like “streetfight”, and “real” fight.

    No guns allowed in fist fights.

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    Anystylist
    Post subject: Ethics in streetfights…PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:59 pm

    Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:47 pm
    Posts: 67
    Location: Northeast
    …are often situational. If you’re fighting just to see who is athletically tougher, weapons are wrong, but if you’re fighting because the guy’s hunting down your kid sister, you have to allow some license.

    I guess we could get really complex about this, but frankly, I’d rather reserve the intellect for the important stuff (jobs, politics, etc) and do my grappling on the mat.

    Nitey nite, Del. PM me if you want.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:01 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    Nice discussion, see ya.

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:18 am

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    Whew….

    Well, Analyst…it’s been a pleasure reading your latest flurry of inquiry. ‘ll do my best to respond, although, it may be somewhat unprofessional to discuss *such* illegal (mutual combat) activities in a public forum, particularly with our friendly neighborhood cop of misdemeanor prorpotions…Del (sucker punch ’em from behind) Greer patrolling the beat…*wink*

    Del, with all due respect, you’re either nuttier than a fruitcake or you’re *very* cool…perhaps a dyslexic combo of both, I don’t do the “squirm” (that went out with bellbottom pants)…and I feel no heat (I have central air)…but thanks for the 6 post lyrical interludes..

    Now, I already did the one sentence summations and I *specifically* made a point to EXCLUDE the top level fighters (both ring and street) from comparisons to the girls in that clip…end of story.

    And you’re right, neither you nor I brought up Erin…it was “Go”…my bad…but, it’s trivial ‘hoo ha’ either way because..

    I said I’ve seen *other* much tougher girls than those in the clip who *I think* (am I not entitled to my opinion?) could give Erin a tougher fight..

    Perhaps you should go train a bit with Bas Rutten or Chris Clugston and you’ll learn that there are distinct differences between street fighting and ring fighting applications, and how elite level can vary with both and how much *actual* experience plays a role.

    Now, I’ll explain my point one more time…which was no insult to you or any other women here because you were *excluded*…presuming you’re at or near the top level?

    I said…a very experienced street fighter IMO would have a significant edge over a lesser experienced ring fighter. A girl with potentially 20-50 or more street fights Vs some girl with little or no previous fight experience, who walks into a dojo, gets some training, and gets lined up for a ring fight, DOES NOT automatically make her a great fighter.

    Do you think any girl who simply puts on some MMA gear and steps in a ring is automatically as good as Deb, Erin, Roxy, or yourself? Are you insulting yourself? I’m not…

    So comparatively, she could likely be mediocre or like a deer in headlights at least for her first few full-contact bouts…and that *does not* necessarily prepare her for a fight outside the ring against an experienced street fighter…end of story (part 2)

    I did explain this already but I guess you were off singing and maniacally laughing somewhere. Perhaps you are projecting, my advice, you should not drink and type…or, drive yellow school busses for that matter…*smile*

    And I was not aware that there’s a precise dictionary for “real” fighting Vs “street” fighting…blah blah blah…did you write it? If so, why are you writing reference books on illegal activities, missy? And if not, could you direct me to whatever reference book there is, thanx.

    Analyst, I will address some of your excellent points in more detail, but I have to go take some of the hypothetical drugs I’m not taking.

    Ciao,

    RA

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    Executioner
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:57 am

    Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 1:48 pm
    Posts: 444
    Location: Netherlands
    Sorry to interrupt, but I’m getting to tired to read all this about streetfights. 🙄
    Streetfights can be funny to watch, that’s it!

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    Author Message
    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:08 am

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    Analyst…

    I think your points on marketing were right on target, and to say that NHB/MMA doesn’t already use the “street” anyway is hypocritical at best… it’s literally intertwined with everything about it…the events “Street Brawl”…”Brawl at Four Bears”..”The Underground” etc…the cages, the fight gear, the fighters handles, the merchandising, the entire look..and that was my original point…

    MMA fighters *are* essentially professional street fighters…only the location happens to be a ring/cage, there are rules, it’s regulated, and they are the best in the world at it.

    As for codes of ethics, there are *degrees* across the board. I the mentioned various reasons for street fights because that’s how it is..two girls could be fighting for numerous reasons, and yes, some much more valid and noble than others..many, simply because they like to fight other girls who also like to fight…same as a ring fight.

    There is always a chance of weapons or “unfair” tactics even in the ring, padded/loaded gloves, low blows, rabbit punching, fish hooking, head butts, ears bitten off, etc…on the street, you have a range of situations from bar fights, to underground club fights, to crew fights such as this clip…

    When I bounced, I got hit and stabbed with numerous weapons, fractured forearms blocking pool cue shafts..one of the reasons I despise weapons and jack-jobs so much. Point blank they are lame and show jack shit in terms of skill, only those countering a weapon attack are showing any skill.

    While club or crew fights *usually* have a more common code of ethics, and most times the crew itself actually refs the fight. That’s why 2-on-1’s and fist packing/weapons (like in this clip) are “chump moves” in anybody’s code of ethics book.

    And there are *plenty* of professional streetfighters, Kimbo is just one who went public. Why don’t you see it? Well, it wouldn’t be underground if everyone knew about it,.:) Like I said before, there are 1000’s of fights every day it’s just now with vidcams and the Internet more and more are surfacing…

    As far as finding girls like this in local neighborhoods, like I said, absolutely.

    Example, at one club we had female bouncers (*legal* street ass kickers btw, Del :p)..one girl, total badass who loved to fight growing up, *many* fights, and could throw a wheel kick faster than most guys and hit like a mule…was a bouncer/bartender/stripper who ended up becoming part owner in the club making 5 times as much as most MMA fighters..so why would she necessarily gravitate into MMA?…makes no sense at least at this point…

    Some go to college in other directions, athletic scholarships…some have babies, some end up in prison like Kimbo Slice.. *many* different reasons, but tons are out there and women’s MMA needs a lot more..

    RA

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:46 am

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    And btw..thanks for the good words, scarce..

    Ex, I feel your laughter, and raise you 2.. 🙂

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    scarce
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:50 am
    Fightergirls elite poster

    Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:31 pm
    Posts: 791
    ..HA HA//
    DEL i just read all your comments
    ..you went off the deep end girl
    thats all right/
    arguments come and go
    it will be okay girl
    stay up/now/
    hope you didnt punch a wall
    or broke a chair/ LOL/

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:22 am

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    anystylist-About that question of disclosure…You probably won’t get the responses your looking for. Image is important and why would an up and coming fighter risk getting bad exposure. There are professional journalists and other media people who read this board and although you may see this as a small community, and it is, questions about past activities might not be the kind of direction a fighter would like to see an interview focus on. Not to mention the mainstream media “fascination of abomination” always picking up the negative aspect of fighting sports. Probably how the phrase “good for the sport” started. Fighters doing things that are good for the sport to counter all the things that are trying to squash its existence.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:26 am

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    hmmm, what should my background music be….any suggestions?

    maybe I’ll start with Radiohead -Amnesiac -“knives out”.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:43 am

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    Whoaaa, rick_alexio let me change music to better read the new stuff you put up…l need to listen to something more aggressive… Lost Prophets…yeeah that’ll shake the cobwebs out but I’ll start with “Sway” it ease into it.

    rick_alexio I will address you questions but first let me finish some thoughts I had after my discussion with anystylist and of course it pertains to your earlier diatribe.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:49 am

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    The discussion on this thread has opened my eyes to something. The age old male vs female perspective. The guys keep asking about “toughness”. They ask do we think fighter “a “is TOUGHer than fighter “b”, do we think fighter “a” can beat fighter “b”. My response was that fighter “a” does not have the SKILL that fighter “b” has and can not WIN against fighter “b”.

    For me toughness is a by-product of the hard training and skill development. Getting up day after day after day to train toughens me but I don’t go in thinking about being tough. I’m thinking about learning how to win a fight.

    For them toughness appears to be that macho “kick sand in your face I’m gonna give ya a beatdown” kinda attittude. It sounds like what you guys want to know is would fighter “a” give fighter “b” a beatdown – would a girl who has won many fights in the streets give a female pro mma fighter a beatdown.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:55 am

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    To give you guys the benefit of the doubt , I almost understand why you would ask a question like that and why you don’t understand or agree when we answer that your street fighter would LOSE. And they would lose because what you think of as “toughness” – the ability to give a beatdown, isn’t enough to prepare yourself for three 5 minute rounds in the ring.

    Also, I thought the discussion implied a hypothetical situation where a streetfighter would be matched against a female mma fighter spur of the moment, sort of calling up the “large Marge streetfighting machine” and telling her- hey. we got a fight for you tonight and they’ll pay you a couple of hundred bucks to show up and fight. That is the scenario I pictured with the question and I say she would lose.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:29 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    When I brought up Marco Ruas and rick_alexio agreed with my example, it got me thinking that maybe what you guys are asking is if a streefighter could cut the mustard as a mma fighter. Well of course they can and many have. If that was the question then it should have been phrased clearly. And it should have been stated that the streefighter would train and prepare for the fight.

    That would also change the scenario because if the streetfighter trains then she is no longer a streetfighter but an athlete training for a sport. Which leads to the fact that I’m learning the average nonfighter has NO idea of the blood, sweat, and tears that go into mma training and the sacrifices we make. Some people think its about hitting a few bags and stuff but we are getting our asses kicked everyday by someone who is always bigger than us.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:31 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    Honestly, training for a fight just isn’t fun, it’s only a means to a goal – an actual fight in the ring.

    So when you guys keep saying streetfighter has more fight experience, well, it makes me laugh and then pisses me off because you guys really don’t understand or appreciate what we do. That is why greatlaughter’s example way back a zillion posts ago was spot on the money. It illustrates the respect people who know what we go through have for us. SUGGESTION: Watch UFC ultimate fighter on January 17 get and idea how fighters train. There is a serious breakdown in communication between the men and women and between the fighters and nonfighters. Classic “men are from mars and women are from venus” situation.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:43 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    Executioner – I AGREE this streetfighter talk IS tiresome and confusing.

    I see that my experience in the world is very different. This term streetfight brings up a different image for me than the term thrown around here. I have seen people BADLY hurt. I have seen people do very very bad things to other people. There was no code of ethics or nobility. It was about survival not a couple of people calling each other out over a silly arugument. I haven’t seen anything like that since high school. What I have seen as streetfighting is very dangerous, it’s not a game.

    Is that what you guys mean by streetfight? Some adolescents calling each other out and fighting over something stupid. Is that what you call being tough

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:52 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    ?? Is that why you are stuck on the 3rd girl thing? Not to say it is right, it’s not, but I’ve seen it happen many times. Shit just escalates. First yelling shouting, pushing, punching///someone grabs a chair///cracks it over someones head///bunch of people jump in cops come.

    That’s what I’ve seen.

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:04 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    So you guys are just wayward youth doing stupid stuff and having some guy video tape it and try to sell it calling it streetfighting…is that it???

    well here is my last intelligent response to this stupid shit.

    rick_alexio of course you’re entitled to your opinion. Are you familiar with Erin’s motto anywhere, anyplace, anytime? ((or something like that)) Of all the women fighters to use in your example you picked the one who epitomizes our frustration in not getting ANY fights in the states. Here is the miscommunication between fighters and nonfighters once again. As Anystylist pointed out, the pool of women fighters is small, hell, compared to any other sport its teeny tiny.

    You guys casually make comments about other fighters who are better, tougher, whatever than mma fighters, like its nothing. Maybe it is nothing to you but to us fighters who are beating our heads against the wall to GET a fight and all the frustrations with it -like training for a fight and then the opponent backs out, or a fight can’t get set up because fighter x doesn’t want to fight fighter y, and the fight goes to pdq vs annadu, or getting a fight then getting injured, or getting injured so you can’t train and miss the only fight opportunity of the year, all that means ALOT to us.

    People who don’t fight don’t get that and sit around fantasizing about impossible scenarios. MMA fighters want more fights so bring on this tough fighters get them in the mix. If they are happy doing what they’re doing not mma, fine but why even mention it.

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    Anystylist
    Post subject: Some issues raised here deserve their own thread…PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:49 pm

    Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:47 pm
    Posts: 67
    Location: Northeast
    …But I’ll wrap up my .02 (more like a quarter, really) today.

    Del said:
    Quote:
    The guys keep asking about “toughness”. They ask do we think fighter “a “is TOUGHer than fighter “b”, do we think fighter “a” can beat fighter “b”. My response was that fighter “a” does not have the SKILL that fighter “b” has and can not WIN against fighter “b”….For me toughness is a by-product of the hard training and skill development….

    Del, you make an excellent point on the overly broad application of the word ‘tough’. I don’t think all guys think alike on this subject, so I’ll speak only for myself here.

    In my previous posts, I used ‘tougher’ as a proxy for ‘better.’ So you’re absolutely right to say that someone can be tougher yet still lose badly because the skill gap is enormous.

    So I’ll commit to being more precise in the future. Apropos of which, I think that there are many factors that go into a fight equation beside ‘skill’ and ‘toughness’. But I won’t go into it here.

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    Anystylist
    Post subject: The world isn’t black and white, thoughPostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:00 pm

    Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:47 pm
    Posts: 67
    Location: Northeast
    Del, by the same token, please don’t think that the world is divided into ‘fighters’ and ‘non-fighters’ the way checker stones are divided into red and black.

    Quote:
    …I’m learning the average nonfighter has NO idea of the blood, sweat, and tears that go into mma training and the sacrifices we make. Some people think its about hitting a few bags and stuff but we are getting our asses kicked everyday by someone who is always bigger than us.

    Absolutely true if you are a professional fighter, but it could also be true if you are an amateur fighter, or even someone who is into it purely as an intense pastime. Those who get our asses kicked half as often per week as you do may not understand everyday pain, but still understand pain–we might not be 100% aware, but give us credit for being 50% aware. Again, I am speaking primarily for myself, but I bet that others on this board would agree with me.

    Aside from which, some people may have competed in the past, but not now, so they’d surely remember what the deal was. And some might be in a training/buildup phase to compete in the future, but they’re already anticipating the pain to deal with it when the time comes.

    Point is, there are many shades of gray.

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    Anystylist
    Post subject: Note on communicationPostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:18 pm

    Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:47 pm
    Posts: 67
    Location: Northeast
    Del, you said
    Quote:
    There is a serious breakdown in communication between the men and women and between the fighters and nonfighters.

    but started the paragraph off like this (bolding is mine):
    Quote:
    So when you guys keep saying streetfighter has more fight experience…you guys really don’t understand or appreciate what we do.

    “You guys”? Not me.

    I don’t think the problem is an understanding gap between fighters and non-fighters, or even men and women. It’s that we all tend to talk in shorthand, cuz that’s the way these boards are. Not a criticism of you by any means, Del, but if everyone on this board wants to communicate better, maybe we should define our terms, summarize your main point up front, argue a point at a time, you know, HS debate team stuff.

    But all that takes away from training time. 🙂

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    Anystylist
    Post subject: [b]Who are the fighters, and how do we find them?[/b]PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:43 pm

    Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:47 pm
    Posts: 67
    Location: Northeast
    Rick said (bolding mine):
    Quote:
    And there are *plenty* of professional streetfighters…Why don’t you see it? Well, it wouldn’t be underground if everyone knew about it…..
    As far as finding girls like this in local neighborhoods, like I said, absolutely…at one club we had female bouncers (*legal* street ass kickers…), one girl, total badass who loved to fight growing up, *many* fights, and could throw a wheel kick faster than most guys and hit like a mule…was a bouncer/bartender/stripper who ended up becoming part owner in the club making 5 times as much as most MMA fighters..so why would she necessarily gravitate into MMA?…makes no sense at least at this point…Some go to college…athletic scholarships…*many* different reasons, but tons are out there and women’s MMA needs a lot more.

    Can I infer from this, Rick, that you disagree with my assessment of the shallowness of the fighting pool at all levels, as well as the difficulty of finding ‘amateur’ F fighters?

    Which would imply that if I’m looking, I’m looking in the wrong way, or in the wrong places?

    That’s cool, by the way; I’m certainly willing to give you the benefit of the doubt for test purposes. And the whole issue of the size of the pool and how to activate it can certainly support its own thread.

    But it looks like you and Del agree on one thing: you won’t find opponents or even true accounts (‘true’ in the sense of meeting journalistic standards) on the internet, whether here or anywhere else. As Del said:

    Quote:
    About disclosure…You probably won’t get the responses your looking for. Image is important…professional journalists and other media people read this board…. Not to mention the mainstream media “fascination of abomination” always picking up the negative aspect of fighting sports….

    Sounds like the old Wall Street adage about the stock market: those who know don’t tell, and those who tell don’t know.

    OK, so here’s my ‘takeaway’ from this thread: you want stories or opponents, network locally with as many people as possible as much as possible, and sooner or later you’ll hit paydirt. But don’t expect internet ‘advertising’ to work. All on this board: agree or disagree?

    P.S. was that BSB (Bad Street Babe, or Bitch, pending Del’s editorial input) at the club that you mentioned really a stripper? If so, was she good (ya know what I mean)?

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:15 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    Del, understand your points and the frustration, maybe you’re realizing that by now. And I’ve been on the receiving end of some of those “bad bad” things and lost a number of friends to the streets over the years. It can be very serious, but many of the best fighters, fighting forms, and self defense methods were developed from street fighting application…those are the roots.

    We may just have to agree to disagree on blanket statements or generalizations…there are *many* various reasons for fights, including self defense. I have also saved lives and stopped women and children from being abused by issuing a “beatdown” ,..it was part of my occupation, I accepted the risk and did train seriously for it.

    On the other hand I have had my share of serious ring training as well, so agree totally with you in that regard…and have felt the power and skil levels of both so can differentiate and assess the capabilty of fighters quite well. And “tough” comes in many forms. A given fighter can train their asses off ’til the cows come home but if they don’t have the *heart* and natural instincts they may never reach or come near the top level. Not everyone has it or is capable of it..there are born fighters who just seem to come out of the womb “tough”…or, they may have it in them and then training and experience can bring it out.

    As for the girls in the clip, I was responding to a thread on a message board…these are things which happen in life and cannot be controlled, they will happen for whatever reasons and random “caught on video” acts like this are simply part of everyday life in the big city.

    My statements were that girls like this (and better fighters) SHOULD be steered towards women’s MMA as a legit way to train and do what they like to do…”fight”…and you cannot build a house without wood from the forest..so therefore it’s important not to disrespect the forest.

    Of course “things happen” …but a chump move is a chump move whether in the ring or anywhere else, and I recognize that and would not call it “cunning”..so that did surprise me a bit and appreciate you clarifying your position.

    And I agree with you about “how these girls would do”…but I also qualified that and put it into proper context…not *all* ring fighters are top level nor are these girls examples of top level street fighters..many do train and do have more experience than some ring fighters…and therefore they would make excellent MMA fighters…and that is the future “feeder system” for women’s MMA.

    Analyst, yes I disagree since there is a *huge* talent pool, it’s only a matter of tapping into it.
    Right now it’s a simple case of the growth of a young sport…when the money and exposure are there it will attract *many* more tough female fighters. Most girls do not even know it exists or who most of these women even are yet…and there are only a couple hundred active members in this group…I’ve had more people at house parties.

    Just give it time and with some big media moves I believe women’s MMA *easily* has the potential to meet or exceed men’s MMA…much like women’s tennis, v-ball, and gymnastics…

    As far as the marketing politics, you’re welcome to feel however you like, Del…but I really do not think your ‘target audience’ is so sensitive that they will be tainted unless MMA fighters are portrayed as angelic beings with no grit and *real life* authenticity they can relate to.

    As I mentioned, it is already commonly used..Huntington Beach “Bad Boy”, etc. as does Erin’s tag line you mentioned…and I truly believe it only’increases the interest and popularity amongst that target audience.

    At any rate, dig your taste in music, so I’ll let you get back to singin’..

    Ciao,

    RA

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:21 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    rick_alexio is that your attempt to butter me up? If you are sucking up to me…try harder…I’m high maintenance.

    To be completely off topic – do you work on wall street anystylist?

    It has come to my attention that young adults read and contribute to this fighter forum. I advise you all to complete your high school education and continue on to college. Your education is more important than a victory notch on your belt from fighting. Aim high and work hard. Even if you have been out of school for awhile it is never too late to go to college.

    The following is a guide to assist you in your pursuit of a higher education: How to get into Harvard

    As one pursues financial success, one begins to note what credentials many of those who have a lot of money have. One of these is a degree from Harvard. Having none, I decided that I should look into getting one, given that it seems such a useful thing to have.

    True, you may have a lackluster educational background, a spotty work history, be of limited intelligence and have no savings at all. Never fear, I have looked into the matter and have concluded that getting into Harvard and from thence proceeding to great success in the corridors of power and/or to Wall Street prominence is simply a matter of perseverance and determination. Harvard itself says that it is eager for diversity. So if you are middle-aged, poor or in debt up to your ears already and a little dumb, this essay is for you and so is Harvard.

    Let’s examine some of Harvard’s own words of encouragement to people such as ourselves. Harvard says, “Harvard makes all decisions concerning applicants, students, faculty and staff on the basis of the individual’s qualifications to contribute to Harvard’s educational objectives and institutional needs.” Good. That is sufficiently bland to allow for the admission of stupid students and people with no money and lousy high school grades provided they have shaped up since then, I guess, and can contribute to Harvard’s attempts to meet Harvard’s needs and help it secure its objectives. And given that one of those objectives is diversity and because it probably doesn’t have many undergrads right now that are middle-aged and dumb, we are well on our way to the hallowed halls of Harvard. And maybe from there to the senate or the White House. The world is your oyster, there for the grabbing (kind of hard and wet on the outside and slimy inside though oysters are).

    What sorts of things is Harvard looking for? That is a little hard to nail down. Harvard says, “What admissions criteria does Harvard use? There is no formula for gaining admission to Harvard.” Sounds easy enough to make oneself agreeable to an admissions board which is so open-minded and whose criteria are so vague. I like Harvard already.

    The admissions materials refer quite bit to one’s performance in high school, so it is safe to assume that the admissions officers assume that you have attended high school, which I assume most of you have, not having heard otherwise. And if you had lousy grades there, that is not an insurmountable obstacle to getting into Harvard. The admissions office says, “Academic accomplishment in high school is important, but the Admissions Committee also considers many other criteria, such as community involvement, leadership and work experience” So, you could finesse the grade thing.

    Community involvement. Let us say, for instance, that you got picked up for drunk driving in your senior year and had to do some community service. There is community involvement for you right there. You could write that up nicely on your application.

    Leadership. Try to think of something in which you have shown leadership. Timidly ask people you are afraid of whether they have ever known you to have shown any and write down the details.

    Extracurricular activities. Were you on the speech team or something? Given that many of you who will read this essay were in high school a long, long time ago go and get your yearbooks or ask your grandchildren to do so and try to establish whether you did anything of any note in high school. Maybe you worked on the yearbook or helped at a pancake feed–that sort of thing. Write all that up. Use strong verbs like “coordinated,” and “organized.” Strong verbs are very important when one is trying to get into Harvard, particularly if your high school transcript, if you can even obtain it at this stage of your life, suggests that you were an undirected sort who took as few hard classes as possible. Luckily, for those of us who basically blew off high school Harvard assures us that, “There is no single academic path we expect all students to follow…” Though yours was one of undeniable mediocrity and no discernible achievement, not to worry.

    Oop, slight problem. Harvard says, “An ideal four-year preparatory program includes…” Oh dear. Not only does Harvard seem to assume that you attended high school, it seems to assume that you graduated from high school. If you didn’t, you could probably finesse that too if you use strong verbs and look like the kind of person who can help Harvard meet its institutional needs and further its educational objectives and one is confident that you are just that kind of gung-ho, go-getting person.

    The admissions material abounds in terms so vague as to enable you to rely on strong verbs to gain admission. An ideal four-year preparatory program. Well, everyone knows that the world isn’t ideal. Harvard probably would welcome into its student body someone who chaffed at taking the four years of math, four years of science, four years of a foreign language and advanced courses in history (American and European) that are pretty clearly stipulated as being required of most applicants, but you aren’t just any applicant. You organized and coordinated things.

    And you don’t even have to be well rounded. That is, you don’t have to have been someone with good grades who served on the student council and played basketball and the clarinet and ran the student store. Harvard says that you could have been “well lopsided,” with “demonstrated excellence in one particular endeavor—academic, extracurricular, or otherwise.” Therefore, if your grades were not merely unimpressive but downright appalling, you can still get into Harvard if you did one thing really well, like say, you were state chess champion or were otherwise an uber-geek of some sort. Harvard says, “…we seek the most interesting, able, and diverse class possible.” Harvard is waiting for you as are almost certainly able and interesting.

    As to the question of whether having some family tie to Harvard helps you get into it, Harvard is coy. “The application process is the same for all candidates. Among a group of similarly distinguished [which you doubtless are] applicants, the daughters and sons of Harvard and Radcliffe colleges alumni/ae receive an additional look.” Ask your parents if they went to Harvard, although you may know that, unless you have not seen one or both of them for years, in which case they might like to hear from you.

    On the application form, put down “freshman,” because you can’t get into the medical, law or business schools unless you have a bachelor’s degree. Graduate school is not our concern here. Let us concentrate on the here and now and the process of gaining admission as an undergraduate, the success of which endeavor is looking good for you at this point.

    You will have to take one of the standard standardized tests (e.g., the SAT). You might even do well on it. If not, not to worry–you may well be well lopsided.

    Harvard asks if your parents are married, separated or divorced. One assumes that you know the answers to questions like that, so fill in the blanks accordingly.

    The application form itself asks you to list extracurricular, community and family activities. Family activities is a broad category. Therefore, you will be able to fill up a lot of space in that part of the form, which is hard to fill in if one has done very little of any particular note in one’s life. It is because we have accomplished little but wish to that we are applying to Harvard, so fill in the form as best you can. Luckily, the part of the form that asks you to list academic honors is fairly small, so if you write big you can swiftly move on to the other questions.

    What luck–it asks you to list your jobs of only the last three years. One does get so tired of writing up the dozens of jobs one has held over the last 30 years. Three years is nothing.

    You are asked to list which activities have been meaningful to you and why. “Meaningful” signals that this is the section in which you must appear earnest and idealistic. Do so, neatly.

    Then there is the personal statement question. You can probably manage to portray yourself as a thoughtful, likable, worthwhile person in 250-500 words. Do so or have someone do it for you—oops, there is a bit at the bottom about “my own work, factually true and honestly presented.” so you had better write everything yourself, especially given that “In most cases…” Harvard says, the misrepresentations are discovered during the admission process and the application is rejected. Given that you want to get into Harvard and given that it is always awkward to be caught grossly faking one’s credentials, you had better write everything yourself and not get someone else to write things for you. Although “most” kind of makes you wonder.

    Anyway, there are quite a few choices of what to write about in the personal statement, such as significant experiences, achievements, risks you took or ethical dilemmas you have faced in your life (one assumes that you have encountered such things in your life, however dull it has been up to this point). Try to look modest but achievement-minded, proud of all that you have accomplished, if anything, but not boastful, etc., etc. You can also write about a fictional character or an historical figure that had an influence on you. You might consider reading books if you plan to write about fictional characters, as referring to Star Trek doesn’t suggest that you are a person of much intellectual heft or depth. You are also allowed to write about a topic of your choice, which opens up all kinds of possibilities. Such as um, well, think of something.

    Send Harvard the $65 application fee. Harvard’s fee is ten bucks less than Yale’s.

    You will hear in a few weeks about the disposition of your application. Boston is cold, so be sure to pack sweaters when you head off to Harvard.

    copied and pasted from hope at humor hangout.

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:52 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    An additional side-note…

    Of those at that party it was a cross-section…a number of the girls were tough college athlete types who had fought and were relating experiences, one even taught boxing and aerobics. In watching the MMA and then the other fight clip *clearly* sparked their interest and there was further discussion with them wanting to get together to train at the gym, and making plans to do so. And there were zero negative assocaitive references and only respect given to both the MMA and other fighters. The guys, some experience, also all really enjoyed it but it was a relaxed natural atmosphere, away from a politically driven message board environment.

    So don’t underestimate the positive impact this can produce…multiply that 70 times 100,000 or more on an SAT pay-per-view and that could generate quite a lot of positive interest and growth for women’s MMA in a hurry…

    RA

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    Del
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:09 pm

    Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
    Posts: 178
    Location: Connecticut
    Hey hey give “em what they want.
    If lust and hate is the candy,
    if blood and love tastes so sweet,
    then we give ’em what they want.

    bumbum bum bum bum bum
    Hey, hey, give ’em what they want.
    So their eyes are growing hazy
    ‘cos they wanna turn it on,
    so their minds are soft and lazy.
    Well, hey, give ’em what they want.
    If lust and hate is the candy,
    if blood and love tastes so sweet,
    then we give ’em what they want.
    So their eyes are growing hazy
    ‘cos they wanna turn it on,
    so their minds are soft and lazy.
    Well who do you wanna blame?
    Hey, hey, give ’em what they want.
    If lust and hate is the candy,
    if blood and love tastes so sweet,
    then we give ’em what they want.
    So their eyes are growing hazy
    ‘cos they wanna turn it on,
    so their minds are soft and lazy.
    Well who do you wanna blame?

    song:candy everybody wants by the band 10000 maniacs

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:15 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    Del wrote:
    [size=18]rick_alexio is that your attempt to butter me up? If you are sucking up to me…try harder…I’m high maintenance. /size]

    lol…

    Butter is a 2 way street, missy…and that talk is a bit kinky since we just met…*wink* ((j/k))

    But seriously, after that “3rd girl jumping-in” nonsense the Harvard entrance advice just kicked your nobility quotient back up about 5 notches…

    Ciao,

    RA

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:15 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    And PS to Analyst: yes and yes regarding your query on the BSB…I dated her..

    RA

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    Anystylist
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:24 am

    Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:47 pm
    Posts: 67
    Location: Northeast
    Del, re your question: I used to work in finance, away from it now, could return in the future.

    Rick, your description of the reaction at your party was way different than what I had inferred from your earlier post. Enthusiasm based on desire to participate rather than ignorant spectating!

    Guess this just reinforces your point that there is latent interest. But–and this is a big but–how many of the F at your party who talked about training or fighting actually followed through later on?

    As I’ve implied elsewhere, I suspect one of the differences between M and F in this arena is that more F drop out when they realize the commitment involved. Not just to be a pro MMA fighter, but at any level.

    As they say at the gym, you can play baseball or play basketball, but you don’t play boxing.

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 12:09 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    Analyst,

    I’m actually not sure on that and would need to check it out…however, it would be unrealistic to expect that *every* girl who might be influenced to train at the gym would then automatically end up in the ring as an MMA fighter, especially with the current state of women’s MMA where there is really not much $$$/exposure to attract women to compete …but, what’s cool is this party was a *clear* indication that it can/will eventually happen.

    The first key is simply to ignite that interest and get folks more familiar with women’s MMA and who the current top fighters are. As we begin to put together all-women’s ppv cards it will start to reach 100’s of thousands of people, who will then get familiarized with the fighters, a percentage of that female audience will then be attracted to train and/or compete.

    Of course it needs to be marketed in ways that will reach it’s optimum potential and I don’t think it’s even come close yet, the closest however would be the “HooknShoot”…

    The tournament prize money and exposure will increase, more women will want to get involved, it’s basic common business sense…

    RA

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:41 pm

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
    Posts: 66
    rick_alexio wrote:
    ground and pound flurry…it was a ‘cute’ fight, not great skills…but again, the kind of girls I would like to see in a dojo…

    RA

    yeah, angela wilson vs. rebecca would be my dream match-up in 2005. LOL. Or Erica Montoya… Can we arrange that? It would be talked about as much as this video.

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:46 pm

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
    Posts: 66
    rick_alexio wrote:
    One final social work side-note to dl_angel…

    At an industry/house party awhile back we were all watching MMA ppv cards etc.on the big screen, and also played the same girl fight clip that is being mentioned here…interestingly, out of 70+ people the greatest reactions were for that clip and came from the females of the group who all really dug it.

    Again, to me the skill level was pretty sub-par but they all hooted and hollered it up…

    RA

    I’m not surprised…

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    dude
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:24 pm

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
    Posts: 66
    rick_alexio wrote:
    Now, I’ll explain my point one more time…which was no insult to you or any other women here because you were *excluded*…presuming you’re at or near the top level?

    Anyone that is of Del’s age can NEVER be “at or near top level.” All the best in your retirement and with the Medicaid, Del… Very well-deserved after Francesca Menda, a fight which was not even close in entertainment value to the girls in that clip. But anyone that likes to play the 2 fights side by side at a party can try this… If forced to choose, I bet 80% of “regular” folks will say they prefer that streetfight clip, and only 20% will prefer Del vs. Francesca. They will state their preference based on how ENTERTAINED they were, not based on skills or some other crap like that.

    Many of you forget that any sport does not exist for the value of sports. Sports = entertainment. Any sport needs to be concerned about how it can attract the greatest number of consumers possible, so that it can remain profitable. Oliver Stone got that right in “Any Given Sunday.” No sports promoter needs to apologize for exploiting the smile appeal of any sport. Fact: A tennis player that was superhot but never won a single tournament got more male fans than some top players (Anna Kournikova vs. Venus Williams). That’s how it is. And, in my opinion, that’s how it should be. Any sport that is unable to attract a market will just die a slow death, as simple as that… But at least the people involved can say “well, but we stood up for our principles”… ugh, no understanding of business.

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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 6:47 pm

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
    Posts: 439
    Location: Louisville, KY
    Ok, dude needs to be removed from the site. This is ridiculous. All he does is pedal videos and insult the fighters on this forum.

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    XcashXmoneyX
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 4:36 pm
    Pro Fighter

    Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:15 am
    Posts: 236
    Location: Dayton, Ohio
    As far as being tough….

    It is one thing to take 3490759057439 punches from some girl who barely even knows how to throw them. Honestly, I think in all my streetfights I had a couple busted lips and black eyes. Mostly just knots on my head, because MOST girls just wing it.

    It is quite another thing, however, to eat a solid one to your face from someone who knows what they’re doing. Having some guy (or girl) flatten your nose and send your jaw back flush with your ears is hard to learn to take. I am not ashamed to admit that after a few weeks at the hardcore sparring sessions I would leave with tunnel vision and both sides of my neck sore from getting my head whipped around. I still get that, because I train with REALLY GOOD people…but I don’t drive home in tears anymore. There for a while I think I showed up just to spite them.

    If getting your a** worked over by professional fighters doesn’t toughen you up, I do’t know what will. And besides that, it’s calmed me down a lot. I haven’t been in some stupid, petty altercation in a long, long time. I guess it just makes you grow up or shut up.

    I’m sure some girls who have a streetfighting background would do well in MMA solely because they’re obviously fiestier than your average, demure female. But…that’s only after they get put in their place and establish their spot in the pecking order….which is usually dead last.

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    dude
    Post subject: XcashXmoneyXPostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 4:56 pm

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
    Posts: 66
    i sure wish we could find out someday.

    if the streetfighters learned a bit of technique, they would definitely not come in last. many of them would do quite well. many have street instincts that you cannot train. now, if a pro fighter started fighting on the streets, then that person would have those instincts, too… but anyone that started fighting only in the ring would probably do poorly against streetfighters.

    i went to ur web site, but couldn’t find out who u are…

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    powerhockey17
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:47 am
    Instructor

    Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2004 2:08 am
    Posts: 59
    Location: San Francisco, CA
    Ya I would fight them too. But I do not think it would be a fair fight..But Maybe fun!

    I have to say, it is very difficult for me to fight when angry. I feel emotions drains ones energy…Even if someone pisses me off, I try to remain calm, just in case I do have to fight..

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:49 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    Some good points, the best fighters should be able to fight well and adapt no matter what the location is, anytime, anywhere…and, having more experience allows one to fight even better with ‘controlled’ emotion.

    Again, how girl X and Y would do in the ring (or out) is hypothetical.
    “Entertaining” as it may be the girls in the clip do not represent the best street fighters so it would be preposterous to even match them up against the best ring fighters without at least some serious submission/ground training. Could they potentially do well with training? Sure, depending on who trains them.

    And the “entertainment value” comes more from the raw emotion than the skill level here…that’s one thing it does illustrate. The best/most popular ring fights have always had that element and been emotional rivalries…Ali/Frasier, Leonard/Duran, Ortis/Lidell, Rijker/Martin (even though it never went down) and now recently the Laila/Erin smack talk has that potential…

    It’s that key element (along with superior fighting skills) which can take the women to the top level.

    Professional fighting is also a business, and at least 50% of it involves promotion and “show biz” level hype. Rivalries and “smack talk” are also what make all other sports so popular…from college football and basketball to pro soccer and the superbowl, you’ll find that there are always tremendous emotion and rivalries involved.

    And (in general) that is clearly a key element missing in women’s mma. While I think it’s great that the girls in the sport are so supportive of one another, most of the ‘target audience’ just won’t get that hyped over…”hey, let’s meet for coffee on Tue, I’ll fight you on Wed, and then we can do lunch and go shopping on Sat.”

    And while it might sound noble on paper, folks standing in line at a fight event aren’t really interested in Harvard entrance advice. They want to see someone like Erin roll up on a Harley, call Laila out from across the parking lot, then get into the ring and kick some major ass.

    Your target audience and tough girls who fight want someone they can relate to…”Fightergirls”…so leave the girl scout cookie instructions to Martha Stewart (oops, in prison, bad example..:) but you get the idea…

    RA

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    dude
    Post subject: REAL raw emotionsPostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:06 pm

    Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm
    Posts: 66
    rick_alexio wrote:
    And the “entertainment value” comes more from the raw emotion than the skill level here…

    It’s that key element (along with superior fighting skills) which can take the women to the top level.

    Professional fighting is also a business, and at least 50% of it involves promotion and “show biz” level hype. Rivalries and “smack talk” are also what make all other sports so popular…from college football and basketball to pro soccer and the superbowl, you’ll find that there are always tremendous emotion and rivalries involved.

    And (in general) that is clearly a key element missing in women’s mma. While I think it’s great that the girls in the sport are so supportive of one another, most of the ‘target audience’ just won’t get that hyped over…”hey, let’s meet for coffee on Tue, I’ll fight you on Wed, and then we can do lunch and go shopping on Sat.”
    RA

    Exactly. Couldn’t agree more. What’s also bad, though, is how the “rivalries” are so often fake in professional boxing. That won’t get anyone hyped over it, either…

    What makes real fights so entertaining is the GENUINE emotion. That’s why a recent OH brawl at a girls HS basketball game was shown all over the country, with slow mo replays. 😉 People like to watch REAL emotions… Those Firestone vs. Kenmore girls were NOT friends, but hardcore rivals… and it came across during the game (amateur video footage)…

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    rick_alexio
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:08 pm

    Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
    Posts: 122
    Location: Southern Cali/Las Vegas
    Well, I don’t think actual “enemies” is always necessary since true competition tends to bring out natural rivalries pretty easily. For example, I don’t think Laila and Erin are being “fake” in creating that rivalry…in addition, they could also gain respect for eachother when/if it goes down.

    It just seems that many of the other girls have been purposely dumbing themselves down and/or are not interested in promoting themselves to the level of Laila or Erin…at least not up to this point anyway.

    RA

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