hurt shoulder…kind of weird

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    Chad Moechnig
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    Rox21
    Post subject: hurt shoulder…kind of weirdPostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 7:28 am
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    Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:49 pm
    Posts: 1334
    Location: Kanagawa/Japan
    If I overtrain grappling and kickboxing, I get sore shoulders. Especially holding up heavy thai pads. It’s like..inside my shoulder, so think the ligaments or tendons are strained.

    So they’re a tad sore from that, and then I do this RETARDED stunt of trying to do leaping rolles over this pad-mat thing with the rest of the class. It was too long and tall and I fell…I don’t even remember how I fell (a bad sign) but somehow alot of stuff ended up hurting. I think I fell on my shoulder since I was trying to do a roll and failed.

    So the next day I could use my arm in every day life except I couldn’t left it vertically upwards. Like can’t lift the phone unless I use my bicep. Okay, ice, Alieve, a little rubbing, next day it’s a tad better. (day 3) I reach under my arm behind my shoulder blade and in addition to the top of my shoulder hurting and the big muscle (I don’t know the name of it), I felt near my side and shoulder blade and felt SHOOTING pain if I touched it. So I carefully pressed the muscle all day and massaged it carefully because it was so tight, and by the end of the day (day 3) I could lift my arm better and it generally started getting better. (today is day 4 and I can lift it without pain…as long as I’m not lifting anything but my arm)

    NOW. Last night (night 3) before I was getting into the shower, I saw myself in the mirror and saw this unsymetrical lump in that general area like on my lat/under shoulder blade on the same latitude as my boob. I hug myself and turn from side to side, and confirm that it’s not on the other side. I touch it. IT MOVES! It was sort of squishy but not squishysquishy. It just wasn’t hard, but it moved under my skin. It was the size of a walnut and I couldn’t tell if it was attached to my muscle or something else…(my first thought was that a muscle ripped and then was floating around, but it didn’t hurt when I touched it…). I think it’s actually smaller today (morning 4).

    I almost think it’s unrelated, because the overtraining pain always comes from the top/inside of the shoulder and maybe the the fall did something to cause the lump? I dunno, does anybody have a similar experience? 🙁
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    VooDooQueen
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 9:26 am

    Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:54 am
    Posts: 93
    Location: colorado springs
    OOOOWWWW!!! Sweety, I think you are at least a couple of days behind going to see a doctor. I haven’t hurt my shoulder that bad, but the retard rolling crap sometimes gives me sor shoulder as well. Prescription strength Naprosyn does even better than aleve although aleve does have naproxyn in it.

    Please go see a doctor…..you want to be safe and not sorry and prevent any permanent damage.

    VooDoo
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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:54 am

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
    Posts: 439
    Location: Louisville, KY
    From what I’ve heard…
    Shoulder injuries are some of the most complex to treat. The reason is because it is a “socket” type of joint. There are tons of little muscles, tendons and ligaments in that area that can be damaged, yet the shoulder area is used so much in training. Usually the muscles act in combination to provide enough power to do things, but each muscle individually is not very strong. If a muscle gets singled out and overworked, then the muscle tears. The rotator cuff gets injured very often with fight training.

    The knot (walnut sized thing) is your body reacting to a muscle tear. The surrounding muscle tissue contracts in order to protect the area. In order to prevent muscle scarring, you need to relax that area and keep it moving. Take hot baths or use a hot pad. You should probably allow your shoulder to rest for a day or two after the injury, but as soon as you feel you can move it again, keep it moving. DO NOT train with it for a while and DO NOT apply heavy pressue, but just keep it mobile. Do some very LIGHT stretching to the area. Do windmills with your arms, move them in circles.

    The reason why you need to keep it moving is because of this: When muscle fibers rebuild, they align themselves in the direction of stress. If the muscle fibers rebuild while being static (not-moving) then the muscle fibers will rebuild un-aligned and that results in tough scar tissue. Worse, there is a condition where the muscle “skin” (called Fascia) adheres to the muscle fibers as they heal. Fascia is supposed to glide overtop the muscle and the muscle contracts. Fascia is not supposed to stick to the muscle. I forgot the name of this condition, but it is very common with people who have to wear casts from an injury. The result is that you have to re-tear your fascia when you begin training again. That can be very painful and also can result in more downtime because you’ll have to start the healing process again.

    I’m talking from experience as I’ve been geting input from various people.. I have a shoulder injury that I’ve had from training for about 6 years now. It is a chronic injury that i think I’ll need surgery to correct. I’ve re-injured it about 15-20 times by now. The amount of scar tissue that has built up in my muscle fibers and in my fascia is probably huge. I finally have learned enough about my injury over this past year and a half to know how to react to it. I have a friend who is about to graduate from massage school. With him, a physical trainer, a chiropractor I once talked to, and a physio therapist that I asked questions to online, they all have provided a lot of information about my shoulder injury. It’s a bit late as I have done so much damage over the years by not reacting to the injury properly.

    The injury started from over-training and then sparring with overly aggressive wrestlers who pull down on your head to do a takedown. That “snap-down” pulled my rhomboid muscles underneath the edge of my shoulder blade. Those muscles connect my shoulder blade to my spine. I also injured my erector spinae, which is a thin set of muscles running alongside the upper spine which is used to life my head. That injury isn’t nearly as bad the the rhomboid injury, however.

    I hope it heals well.
    Last edited by KnockOut2 on Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:55 am

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
    Posts: 439
    Location: Louisville, KY
    I don’t recommend seeing a plain old doctor. I recommend seeing a physical therapist. The doctor will likely prescribe pain killers and muscle relaxers and tell you not to train for 2-3 weeks. A physio or sports physician will know what you need to do to heal the area.
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    VooDooQueen
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:28 am

    Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:54 am
    Posts: 93
    Location: colorado springs
    You’re prolly right on that one, Knockout…especially a military doc…

    They all say: Here’s some advil…use some ice and some heat and stay off it..come back if there’s any further issues.

    Bunch of quacks

    VooDoo
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    Rox21
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:50 am
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    Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:49 pm
    Posts: 1334
    Location: Kanagawa/Japan
    Thanks SO much, guys. I’ll go see my school’s doctor when I move back in to college and see if he knows what the lumpie thingie is off the top of his head, or can recommend me to someone.
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    XcashXmoneyX
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:56 pm
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    Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:15 am
    Posts: 236
    Location: Dayton, Ohio
    ok Rox, i am posting because i have an IDENTICAL problem, and youre the only other person ive known to have it.

    my left shoulder occasionally acts the same way…its a deep, sharp pain that you really couldnt pinpoint with your hand, because its inside your shoulder…right? mine almost felt like my collarbone was stabbing into my shoulder at times. i worked a warehouse job and was lifting heavy stuff from over my head, on top of training jiu jitsu and judo. i was told by the doctor that it was most likely a gross inflamation of my rotator cuff and the ligaments around it…in essence, a sprain. it occasionally still aggravates me, and most often after ive grappled hard and gotten a kimura on that side, or something of that nature…but it has gotten a lot better.

    im a nursing major and there are a few things i have learned, in school AND from training and seeing injuries day in and day out. a lot of times when you injure a limb, you compensate for the weakness, and so the muscles around it will become inexplicably sore…sometimes someone injures their leg, and it screws their back up…because it alters their natural gate and stature.

    the curious lump, which i had one in my right armpit that went away…is most likely a gland, which is probably a reaction to the inflamation in the general area. glands are funny like that, if i get hit real hard training and it makes my neck sore, the glands will lump up for a couple days.

    and speaking of injuries, im having knee surgery on the 24th of this month, so no hook n shoot…ill probably fight on the arnold classic hook n shoot card though. it sucks but its just going to make me able to condition better and train more, so it will work out ok in the long run.

    bottom line though, im not a doctor, so you should definitely go see one just to be sure youre ok. hope it works out 🙂
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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 7:47 pm

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
    Posts: 439
    Location: Louisville, KY
    I’ve never heard of a gland swelling up because of a muscle pull. Well, at least it sounds like a severe muscle pull to me. More like a muscle tear.

    “saw this unsymetrical lump in that general area like on my lat/under shoulder blade on the same latitude as my boob.”

    Is there a gland in that area? Anyone know?
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    Jeff
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:25 pm

    Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 4:00 pm
    Posts: 0
    No Kellyn Huehn-Mandy Stewart in November?
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    XcashXmoneyX
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:38 am
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    Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:15 am
    Posts: 236
    Location: Dayton, Ohio
    sorry i read that wrong and was under the impression that it was nearer the front, rather than the posterior part of the body. if thats where it is, DEFINITELY go to the doctor.

    and no, no mandy stewarts – kellyn huehn, but i do believe that mandy is still fighting. shes on this board, ask her.

    as for the fascia problem, i have always been told that condition is called an “adhesion”, which is real common from bone breaks and surgical procedures, as well as hernias and the like, which may be what miss rox is dealing with. good posts on this topic!
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    Rox21
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 7:03 pm
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    Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:49 pm
    Posts: 1334
    Location: Kanagawa/Japan
    I assume then that XCash is Kellyn? I’m so sorry to hear about your knee. 🙁 That’s really a bummer.

    I had my friends’ mother who’s a doctor feel the lump and she thinks it’s a cyst. 🙁 I think I’ll try and get it removed after Dec 11th or right before the X mas holiday. I think it has nothing to do with my shoulder because the shoulder healed like it always did and is better (for a while!) Thanks so much for all the good info..I think it is a rotator cuff thing. Everyone tells me to do the strength training exercises , but my thing is that if I move it A LOT it starts hurting. So….why would I make a special effort to exercise it more? 😕
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