I want FFF DVD!!!!!!!!

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    Chad Moechnig
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    Rox21
    Post subject: I want FFF DVD!!!!!!!! Post Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:08 pm
    Pro Fighter

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    GIMMIE 😆

    Does anyone know if I can get a hold of my fight? 🙁 I wanna study it. The promotors aren’t giving me anything…it hasn’t been broadcast or anything, has it?
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    femalefightfan
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:14 am

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    Yeah, really. I wanna see the Evinger / Pullen KO fight SO BAD!!! The complete fight. I’ll watch the other ones too, but that one is #1 for me.

    Surely there’s a YouTube link or something?

    My guess – FFF is run by a couple of coke snorting white guys, and the money from the “pre-orders”? Gone a long time ago.

    FFF is such a half assed operation as far as I’m concerned.

    The preview video was up on their website 6 months ago, so why has this been such a problem? 😡
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    local13
    Post subject: FFF inept not crookedPostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:44 pm

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    There is no question that FFF has badly botched the release of the dvd of its first event from February of 2007. It was promised for May, and then customers who pre-ordered were told it would be just a couple of weeks.

    However, when I was sent T-shirts I did not order in lieu of the dvd I did order, the charges for the T-shirts were removed and I was allowed to keep them. In addition, my card, and I assume others who pre-ordered were treated the same, and not charged until the item would ship. My card was never charged.

    For some reason it is taking these promoters of these events a very long time to release dvds of their live events. For example, Revolution 3 was recently released and it is a compilation of fights, some of them years old. To my knowledge a dvd of the first real all women tournament by hooknshoot from November of 2005, I believe, has never been released and there were some great matches that night.

    With today’s technology, I do not understand the reason these companies cannot put out the dvds in a timely manner. All the major production companies who produce f v f or f v m videos which feature competitive, scripted, fantasy and fetish material can produce dvds for their customers within days of the video being shot. Many of these companies are run on a shoestring or are really mom and pop operations.

    If the companies that produce the fluff fighting and fetish materials featuring bikini clad females in “matches” with other women (some are truly competitive, but most are not), you would think MMA matches could be produced quickly to capitalize on the interest these live event generates.

    It is difficult to fathom how women’s MMA can be taken seriously if the promoters of these events cannot produce dvds in a timely manner. It is a shame, and it hurts the sport.

    Barry
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    Rikki
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:12 pm
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    I own a video production company and we used to do the videos for a local amateur event. It took us about a month to turn one around – the shortest one took around a week and a half. Granted, this should be a more professional production than our early works were, but still…..9 months? Our latest instructional releases don’t take nearly that long to produce and there should be a lot more editing involved in those!

    I knew there was a reason that I didn’t preorder this DVD!
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:27 am
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    folks there are many reasons which can delay a release. they could be shopping for the best distributor(s), considering offers for a PPV or TV release, licensing issues, trying to secure enough pre-orders or various other reasons. since once they release it can then be copied or distributed via P2P networks and torrents which can greatly diminish it’s market value. they have only had a few events so far and are promoting and putting together all-female fight cards so unless you are doing better or more yourself i don’t think anyone should be too critical about it. until recently there have been very few opportunities for female fighters so any new orgs that are putting more cards together is still a huge positive. let’s try to influence improvements but not completely shoot them down.

    in order for them to continue revenue is needed and doubt they are making much from either the door or dvd sales. i do agree however that if they are making claims of a specific release date then they should provide reasonable notification or updates regarding the release with some idea of the reasons for any delays.

    rox, afaik the only ways are previews thru the source, bootleg copies or pda shot versions. i wanted to study your fight too. 😉
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    local13
    Post subject: FFF has no legit excuse for the delay of these dvdsPostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:17 am

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    You are way too kind in your assessment of possible reasons FFF has failed to release the dvds as promised. It is a simple matter to license the rights to it to other companies, or simply just sell it exclusively yourself on your own website.

    The argument that possible PPV deals or the fear that use of peer to peer networks like Torrent files is a legitimate reason to delay the release of these dvds is beyond ludicrous. There was no PPV for the first event and future potential PPV showings would be enhanced by the release of the dvds of the previous live events. Moreover, once anyone has a copy of a dvd of these events anyone could upload it to a peer to peer network. The only way to prevent that is to fail to release any copies, which is apparently the strategy of FFF.

    The UFC does not have to release dvds of their events in close proximity to the date the events took place because it has become an accepted sport, and they have tremendous television exposure on the Spike Network and a large audience for their PPV events.

    To the contrary, women’s MMA is “fighting” to be accepted by the masses, so it too can be viewed as a legitimate sporting event worthy of having fans paying to see the live events or to view dvds of the matches. Other than an occasional bodog f v f match, or an even more infrequent women’ s match on Showtime Elite XC, women do not have any regular outlets to display their MMA abilities.

    If women’s MMA wants to be taken seriously it has to develop a system to deliver its product to the masses via a wide network for its PPV events and to make them available in a timely manner in dvd format. FFF’s failure to do this has hurt the cause of women’s MMA, which already has an uphill struggle with acceptance which is being further hampered by the ineptness of FFF’ release of its dvds.

    I just hope you are a misguided individual instead of someone trying to shill for FFF, because in truth, the manner in which FFF has handled the release of its dvds is indefensible.

    Barry
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:58 am
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    there is no “shill” or misguided statements we are currently involved in similar projects including dvds. we have just got done working with Spike TV and others on a project so i’m well aware of the process. the business end of the game is as important as the training/fighting and so both areas have been my focus. you mentioned some sort of “fetish” or staged material which has got zero to do with real fighting or events, and there is not anything like the same viable market for that on TV or PPV like there is now for MMA (male or female) which is growing mainstream and becoming very much in high demand. the previous events do not need to be “Live” to be pitched or marketed for PPV, TV or other forms of release…and, the usual process is PPV or TV release ‘then’ to dvd. once it goes to dvd and is released it can very well be copied and distributed via the Internet, there is no way you can guarantee that it won’t, and you can protect from that by securing pre-orders delaying the release until you have confirmed a specific amount of sales…or, who knows maybe they’ve just been too busy shampooing their hair and drinking margaritas. 😉

    i am not defending their delay after claiming a much earlier release date with no update or explaination, just that there can be various valid reasons (in general) for delays which you cannot presume and doesn’t diminish all the positives they are doing with promoting all-female cards in the first place. they are not obligated to even offer a dvd if they chose not to…but, if they do and claims are made for a specific release date then you are right…timely completion or at least frequent updates as to the reasons for delay would be nice and appropriate…it is very frustrating for the consumer to expect a product release when it’s claimed “a few weeks” without any valid explanation as to the reason for the delay, and that is a negative business practice, i do agree on that part.
    Last edited by GFC on Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:18 pm
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    first of all i never “thumbed my nose” at anything. i’m just stating that they are 2 completely different animals. those companies which have included some real matches that’s fine but they are still not marketed along the same lines as UFC, Bodog, EliteXC, etc…so there are different issues and potential PPV and TV network interests as well as other concerns which could cause delays that those other companies don’t have to deal with in that niche market…

    you are well spoken and with you being a fan/consumer i understand your grievance. my only point was that FFF is promoting and putting together all-female cards and that imo is the much bigger issue which i am very in much favor of no matter who it is…the dvd (or delay of) is only a small part of the whole enchilada…although, i do agree the delay sux but not sure what the reasons are yet and still do not feel that negates the bigger picture. same as if Bodog or EliteXC delayed getting a dvd series out they are still putting on events getting ops for and paying fighters creating more great matchups and promoting the sport in those other ways.

    in fact, i was just talking about FFF’s reffing and early stoppages on another thread, but that is just one area of constructive criticism not bashing all the positives they are doing. just like i can’t stand some of dana white’s f’d up policies and views but that doesn’t mean i am anti-UFC, don’t throw the baby out with the bath water…

    the bad part right now is that FFF is not yet providing a good outlet for exposure other than being at the event (which is a problem with various fight orgs not just them)…not sure what the reasons are but i’m not going to conclude anything until we know for sure, hopefully they will improve and resolve this soon…
    Last edited by GFC on Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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    local13
    Post subject: let’s make peacePostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:16 pm

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    Dear GFC,

    I have no desire to be engaged in a “pissing” match with you. I have as strong sense of right and wrong and the spirit of fair play from my professional experience as a lawyer representing indigent persons and worthwhile community groups and organizations. Thus, my outrage for the manner in which FFF has conducted its business is based on FFF violating those principals and disrespecting and dishonoring the fans of women’s MMA by making false claims and promise, and further compounding the problem by not communicating its difficulties to its consumers.

    Where we differ is to the amount of damage that has been done. You believe that the fact FFF has operated these live events far outweighs the harm it is done by bungling the release of dvds from its very first live event 9 months ago! Bodog and Elite have not promised to release any dvds to date, so the comparison of those operations to FFF is unfair and misplaced.

    Moreover, at least the Bodog events have been on commercial television and basic cable and Elite has been on premium cable, allowing women’s MMA to reach a decent sized audience. The market potential for events promoted by FFF should exceed the subscriber base for at least Showtime. Many persons do not have cable, or have only basic cable, or might have HBO in lieu of Showtime. However, the potential market for the dvds is vast, as they are available to anyone and are generally priced just slightly more than a month’s subscription to Showtime.

    But, the interest in these dvds wanes after much time elapses from the time of the event until the release date. Here two live events from FFF itself have occurred since the first one in February, and Elite and Bodog have also had numerous female matches since the February event. Many persons who might be disposed to buy these dvds would have their interest diminished by the passage of time, as many of the fighters will already have had other matches for which the results are known and thus have the effect of having the February event results appear even more dated.

    It is interesting to note that no representative from FFF has ever deigned to explain its position on these dvds. Their silence speaks volumes about its true interest in promoting women’s MMA. If you want consumers to support your companies products at least have the decency and honesty to be upfront with your customers.

    Unless and until FFF or someone else can put out to the marketplace dvds of all female or primarily female MMA events, I am afraid women’s MMA is more likely to be viewed as just a fringe activity.

    Barry
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:28 pm
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    fair enough you are welcome to your opinion. you seem to feel the dvd market means everything in promoting the sport, i don’t. evidently you are an avid dvd consumer/advocate so i can see where you feel that means everything and might be compelled to pressure the source to supply that demand…

    their silence doesn’t conclude anything except their silence. for all anyone knows they could be in negotiations with any number of PPV or other networks which (despite what you may believe) has much larger exposure and revenue potential. don’t worry MMA (including Women’s MMA) will continue to grow with or without FFF or their dvd delays. women’s mma had remix, hooknshoot, and some japanes dvds for years and never started blowing up until big league exposure on television and PPV fight cards like EliteXC and Bodog are now doing, who’s dvd sales are secondary to everything else

    again, the only thing i will agree with is they should not promise or promote the goods to a specific time frame if they cannot deliver the product or offer a valid reason for delay…
    Last edited by GFC on Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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    local13
    Post subject: FFF silence is significantPostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:58 pm

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    I respect everyone’ right to his or her own opinion. We could certainly debate the merits of the benefit of the live events as compared to dvd sales of those events. However, the issue is to increase the popularity of women’s MMA and more people would have access to dvds than the live event itself. Plus, the failure to deliver as promised tarnishes the image of the sport and relegates it to the minor leagues. These are not small issues, but I am also not saying that dvd sales are the only key to the future of women’s MMA. However, the failure to properly distribute them to the general public prevents more fans from being added to the sport and makes potential fans angry and upset and less likely to want to patronize the sport in the future.

    The silence by FFF is not merely indicative of silence. There should be no doubt that FFF is aware of this website and forum and that persons here have been critical of its operations. If you run a caring and legitimate company, you are open and honest with your customers, and when you make mistakes, you own up to them. Here FFF disregards or ignores the interests of its customers and potential customers. It updates its website slowly, even when breaking events make its information contained on that site obsolete and outdated. Any reasonable person would conclude that at best FFF is an entirely inept, inefficient and poorly operated company, and at worse is a callous outfit that cares nothing other than the all mighty dollar at the expense of the damage it has done to the sport of women’s MMA.

    If you or anyone on this board has any contacts with FFF, please encourage them to show some “balls” and respond to these legitimate criticisms. I will never support their products from this point on unless and until they “clean up their act.” My guess is they will be incapable of doing that unless they replace the persons who have running their company much like the Skipper and Gilligan ran the Minnow.

    Barry
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:25 pm
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    well no i would not conclude or presume any of those things. i know enough for a fact that they are not completely “inept” are doing a number of things quite well but could use improvements in several areas the dvd and website i would agree being 2 of them…as well, improvements can/will continue to evolve with EliteXC, Bodog, UFC and every other org…everyone is growing at different levels but the entire sport of MMA certainly doesn’t hinge on FFF or any other individual company…
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    local13
    Post subject: FFF events have been advertisedPostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:53 pm

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    Either FFF or person or persons acting on their behalf have posted announcements of their live events and about the availability of the dvd. Once that was done, FFC had a moral responsibility to respond to the justified criticisms of its operation. I am afraid your continued support of FFF in the face of overwhelming evidence of their callousness toward their customers strongly suggests you are aligned with them in some way. Have you not read the earlier posts where the website contact information does not even work?

    Unless FFF personnel have never heard of this site and their announcements just magically appear on this forum without their knowledge and consent, it is unfathomable that if they were a legitimate company which cared about its customers and the sport of women’s MMA, that FFF would at least have the basic decency to address its problems with its website, dvds and its image. Their failure to do so is shameful.

    If you think FFF is doing a good job in those instances you must think the Bush Administration is doing great in the War in Iraq.

    Barry
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:56 pm
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    i *just* told you i agreed with those faults and clearly explained my position.
    please do not make suppositions about me or my affiliations. i have no clue who directly involved with FFF checks this board or how often. i have personally gone weeks without checking in but then sometimes get involved in long threads, it’s sporadic depending my schedule or when i’m not on the road. this thread just started yesterday so i’d say there’s a fairly high probability FFF heads were not logged-in sitting here waiting for this thread to start (unless it was planned lol) and i would imagine they are aware of the situation off this site with email complaints regarding orders…but, i am not going to conclude what the reasons for the delay are…and again, i totally agree that not giving some response or explanation is a sign of horrible customer service and extremely poor business practices in this area.
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    local13
    Post subject: I am sorry-you are wrong to defend FFFPostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:26 pm

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    I cannot “prove” you are affiliated with FFF, but since you have been the only one to defend them, it makes a reasonable person suspicious of your motive for doing so when there is so much you admit is wrong with their operation.

    Please remember that earlier in this thread you stated that you believed that silence is just silence. To be charitable that position is ridiculous, even if it was capable of belief. When a company or organization knows or should have known its business practices are being questioned, the failure to respond is at best unacceptable and at worse arrogant and mean-spirited. This recent thread is not the first time there have been complaints against FFF, as the complaints go back to at least June of this year. Yet, to date no one from FFF (other than possibly yourself) has had the decency to address these legitimate concerns about the manner in which FFF conducts itself.

    You don’t have to stand outside in the rain and get wet in order to know it is raining. You can look out the window. I suggest you “look out the window” here and conclude that FFF does not care about its customers and hence really does not care about any negative impact its business practices have on women’s MMA.

    BTW, since I fear you really are a shill for FFF, I will not allow you to get the last word. Thus, I suggest you either not respond to this latest post of mine, or agree with me that your position is untenable. If you persist in your unwarranted defense of FFF, please be assured I will respond each and every time.

    Barry
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:29 pm
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    😆 you just admitted you were assuming so who cares if you repeat it’s still an assumption…

    look, you also just said i agreed about problems with their operation so how is that defending? besides even *if* i were with FFF my position would be exactly the same so it doesn’t really matter either way…

    but i’ll play along anyway…

    *hypothetical* “i am the owner of FFF, i think we have horrible customer service and extremely poor business practices…and, we are not releasing our dvds for any other reason than we are simply arrogant, mean-spirited and don’t care about our customers or women’s MMA”

    happy… 🙂
    Last edited by GFC on Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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    sharice
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:37 pm

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    Well whether the FFF organization has completely turned fans off to Women’s MMA is a hard question to answer. The company has more likely turned more people on to Women’s MMA than off. While it is very poor business practice to announce the pre-sale and release of a DVD that isn’t at the very least almost ready for distribution I don’t think it will damage the image of Women’s MMA as whole only the FFF image.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:40 pm
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    totally agree…
    sharice wrote:
    Well whether the FFF organization has completely turned fans off to Women’s MMA is a hard question to answer. The company has more likely turned more people on to Women’s MMA than off. While it is very poor business practice to announce the pre-sale and release of a DVD that isn’t at the very least almost ready for distribution I don’t think it will damage the image of Women’s MMA as whole only the FFF image.
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    local13
    Post subject: You just don’t get itPostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:48 pm

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    GFC,

    You must be standing to my left as I type my messages with me wearing my T-shirt “I am with Illogical” (with arrow pointing that way).

    I said I could not “prove” you were a shill for FFF, but the implication is clear that you are involved with that organization. It is a common practice for someone to pretend to be objective by admitting some aspect of an argument against their stated position. Here no one in contact with reality could deny that the manner in which FFF has conducted its business is abominable. Yet, you still extoll the virtues of FFF despite its callous or uncaring attitude toward its customers.

    BTW, Sharice I do not maintain that FFF has completely turned off persons to women’s MMA. Rather, my point is that while FFF allegedly seeks to promote women’s MMA, its manner of operating its business hurts as much, or more than its live events help to advance the cause of women’s MMA.

    Barry
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:11 pm
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    lol…

    if you do not think it’s possible to like the UFC but not like other aspects such as many of dana white’s viewpoints then you are ridiculous. i feel the same way about FFF…and that’s whether i am with the UFC, FFF, or anyone else…

    it just doesn’t make ‘reasonable’ sense to me that they would fail to release their own revenue source for no other reason than intentional arrogance and mean-spiritedness towards their own customers…unless perhaps, obsessed dvd fans hounded them into it ruining things for everyone else waiting…

    hmmmm…was that arrow pointin up before you wore the stitches out?

    btw, how do we know you are not a shill for some other org who doesn’t like FFF… 😉
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    mostuniquename
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:38 pm

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    Quote:
    it just doesn’t make ‘reasonable’ sense to me that they would fail to release their own revenue source for no other reason than intentional arrogance and mean-spiritedness towards their own customers…
    I doubt anybody here cares about them releasing their revenue source, people just care about getting the damn dvd they paid for in a timely manner
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    local13
    Post subject: I ain’t no stinking shillPostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:38 pm

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    GFC,

    You are tenacious; I will give you that. I said nothing about the UFC and all I am saying about FFF is that their business operations have hurt the cause of women’s MMA.

    BTW, who, pray tell could I be shilling for–Ralph Nader’s Consumer Rights Organization? My name is Barry, and I am an attorney in Chicago who represents indigent persons and worthy community groups. If you want more personal information, email me privately and I would be happy to comply with any reasonable request in that regard.

    On the other hand, you seem to have some hidden agenda to support FFF. However, at this point I care not about it any longer, as I think we both have made our points ad nauseum.

    I hope you have an enjoyable weekend.

    Barry
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    sharice
    Post subject: Re: You just don’t get itPostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:45 pm

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    local13 wrote:
    GFC,
    BTW, Sharice I do not maintain that FFF has completely turned off persons to women’s MMA. Rather, my point is that while FFF allegedly seeks to promote women’s MMA, its manner of operating its business hurts as much, or more than its live events help to advance the cause of women’s MMA.

    Barry
    I want a place to fight . DVD’s can’t be made without the live shows. I think the live show furthers “the cause” more than any post fight promotions. If I have no where to participate in a live show it is definitely hurting “the cause” of Women’s MMA more than if I can’t get a professionally made DVD of my fight.
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    GFC
    Post subject: Re: You just don’t get itPostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:26 pm
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    def priority one, then also important how the show is run…like if you travel 1000 miles for crap reffing get robbed and pick up a loss on a bs call then having that kinda place to fight can be a lousy thing. also bad PR for a paying audience who travel to come to see a “megafight” but the ref needs wake-up calls from the crowd then keeps hittin the snooze bar. after that post fight promotions are also important. it is not righteous or a good policy to leave your dvd customers hanging that long. if you are collecting pre-orders do it within a reasonable time frame and keep your customers updated. there are *many* facets involved with furthering “the cause”….
    sharice wrote:

    I want a place to fight . DVD’s can’t be made without the live shows. I think the live show furthers “the cause” more than any post fight promotions. If I have no where to participate in a live show it is definitely hurting “the cause” of Women’s MMA more than if I can’t get a professionally made DVD of my fight.
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    local13
    Post subject: for you that makes sense, butPostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:21 pm

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    Sharice,

    I understand your point of view as a fighter you need a venue to fight. However, in order for women’s MMA to become accepted as a legit sport like men’s MMA, it needs to attract more fans. Live shows with limited or no PPV do not accomplish this. However, dvds of those shows would help to do so for the hundreds or thousands of MMA fans who cannot make it to the live event or have access to any limited PPV that might exist.

    FFF helps the cause of women’s MMA by staging live events, and at the same time totally undermines its support of the sport by having lousy business practices which engenders anger and disappointment for its potential fan base.

    Let FFF or someone who knows his ass from a hole in the ground run a women’s fight event properly and put out dvds in a timely manner of the event for those who were unable to attend, and then you have the makings of gaining some acceptance of women’s MMA as something more than a novelty.

    Barry
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:19 am
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    local13 wrote:
    However, in order for women’s MMA to become accepted as a legit sport like men’s MMA

    women’s MMA as something more than a novelty.

    Barry
    well sorry but you have lost me now on these 2 statements, i do not agree and feel it is somewhat offensive towards us. we have already surpassed the point of being considered a “novelty” or “legit”…fem fighters are now some of the highest attractions on EliteXC and Bodog…Molly and Carina’s was voted “best fight” over all the men’s with Tara and Amanda up at the top over there. then on the other side best fight Carano/Kedzie with Gina being the most popular fighter male or female in EliteXC along with Shayna rock n rollin making big waves there now too. Debi also kicking off another huge impact with the IFL and her new websites. Rox being FFF champ bouncing all over at the top in Japan too. speaking of Japan with Fujii and *many* other superstars women’s mma is also becoming HUGE over there. then we’ve got Rosi dominant force representin UK/Europe…and New Zealand about to blow up! with the younger generation of fight girls we also now have almost a million members on my site more than any other fight space male or female. i’ve been in contact with virtually every demographic they have all been very positive and supportive towards women’s mma and other forms of fighting.

    i will agree that dvd sales are an important factor but that is still a small niche market, it is even more crucial to get women’s mma out to the masses via network television/PPV and the Internet as we are doing. And of course as Sharice mentioned having more quality venues being priority #1…
    Last edited by GFC on Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:41 am, edited 3 times in total.

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    local13
    Post subject: you misunderstand my pointPostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:59 am

    Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:10 pm
    Posts: 250
    Location: Chicago
    GFC,

    I am not saying women’s MMA should not be taken seriously or that it is a novelty. I have supported women’s MMA and own a dozen or so dvds of female MMA matches from Revolution, Smack Girls and a few other sources.

    However, in order to make women’s MMA as viable as men’s MMA it must reach a wider audience. Many average male MMA competitors can make a decent living and not have to work other jobs in order to compete in MMA. To the contrary, few women command much money in MMA, and thus the majority of female MMA competitors must work other jobs in order to be able to afford to train and compete in MMA matches. And, most make peanuts compared to the men.

    Women’s tennis is as popular as men’s and the better women earn roughly the same as their male counterparts. However, women’s Pro basketball is barely a blip on the radar compared to the men’s. If women’s MMA wants to be more like tennis than the WNBA, it needs to do a better job of educating the public about the legitimacy and excitement of the sport.

    I do not think the availability of dvds of these live events is the be all and end all for women’s MMA to survive. However, I steadfastly maintain that FFF’s sorry ass manner of handling the release and marketing of the dvds it promised many months ago has hurt the cause of women’s MMA and will continue to do so unless and until it cleans up its act, or some other promoter comes along that can figure out how to duplicate and distribute dvds in a timely manner.

    Barry
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:19 am
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    Barry…

    thanx i appreciate that clarification. i do believe MMA (and Women’s MMA in particular) are *the* fastest growing sports in the world right now. and i also believe unlike b-ball or tennis women’s mma can and will equal or even surpass the men’s side. true we are not there yet but have already blasted thru the point of being legit or a novelty…and you are right, in order for FFF to add positive fuel to “the cause” some major changes are needed. don’t worry we also have some huge things in store (cannot go into details yet) but rest assured all of theses factors including customer relations and the positive impact on women’s mma/fighting will always be of paramount importance.

    ~Lisa
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    local13
    Post subject: I hope you are correctPostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:51 am

    Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:10 pm
    Posts: 250
    Location: Chicago
    Lisa,

    I certainly agree that women’s MMA holds great potential. Most guys who enjoy various fighting type sports should support it once they see the skill and attractiveness of many of the competitors involved. In addition, so should a significant percentage of the female population find women’s MMA intriguing and perhaps even empowering.

    Neanderthals like Dana White might not understand or accept the appeal of the women’s side of MMA, but I believe most MMA fans would be receptive to women’s MMA achieving the same or better status than the male portion of the sport.

    I hope your exciting plans come to fruition and that the customer relation problems of outfits like FFF get resolved in a positive way–and soon.

    Take care,

    Barry
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:37 pm
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    Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:01 am
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    Barry…

    thank you, yes females are empowered tremendously and that has become one of the most rewarding aspects. one of our main goals is transitioning more girls into training/fighting and we already are with *many* so that has become a huge passion for me now. we’d also love to eventually help influence and get martial arts training mandatory in schools to promote physical, mental, and spiritual discipline as well as self-defense. i have had everything from suicidal girls to abused girlfriends and wives come to me and they have turned their lives around…in fact, the mission right now has become more important to me than my own fighting career but i am still young so that’s cool…

    speaking of Dana gotta start gettin ready for the big card tonight but i will just say this much for now…it is unfortunate because he does also have some good qualities and i would prefer liking the guy…but, what he has said and done are *extremely* smile anti-female and i will never change my views unless he does an about-face and becomes a REAL man. in the back of his mind he knows damn well he f’d up big time and was wrong but his over-inflated ego just won’t allow him to admit it…

    ciao,

    ~L
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    femalefightfan
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:06 am

    Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:45 pm
    Posts: 45
    I called FFF the day after I made my first post in this topic. I spoke to some guy there. He said they are planning the release for FEBRUARY (I assume that means February in the year 2008), and it’s gonna be so long because they need 2 months for a distributor to promote it.

    Bunch of BULLSHIT as far as I’m concerned.

    As soon as they announced the “pre-order” thing, I knew something was up. Is pre-ordering a common thing? I haven’t seen it very often except for things like video game releases.

    They said they’ve had a lot of calls on when it’ll be available. Gee, I wonder why.

    For their sheer incompetence, I think ONE computer-savvy person here should get a copy when it comes out, and upload the whole thing to Limewire and provide us a link or some keywords to it so the rest of us can download it.
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    Sako
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:57 pm

    Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:39 pm
    Posts: 327
    I don’t think this is just an FFF problem, many mma promotions take a year to get their events on DVD. I think Hook n Shoot Revolution 3 was recorded 2005 and released just this year. Yes, I understand it sux that we won’t get to see many fights until a couple months or a year after they took place, but what can we do?
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    cosmic
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:47 am

    Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:56 am
    Posts: 405
    Location: AUSTRALIA
    femalefightfan wrote:
    For their sheer incompetence, I think ONE computer-savvy person here should get a copy when it comes out, and upload the whole thing to Limewire and provide us a link or some keywords to it so the rest of us can download it.
    hahaha 😆
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    Rox21
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:49 am
    Pro Fighter

    Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:49 pm
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    Location: Kanagawa/Japan
    oops o_O Wow, didn’t realize what this would turn into!!
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    chad
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:54 am
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    I did see them at the MMA trade show in Aneheim. I asked about the video where they were showing clips. Really looked good but they did say that they get one chance to put out a good video and they wanted to take their time.. No definate date was told to me!

    Sorry that is the only news I can give you about the video!

    Chad
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    local13
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:58 am

    Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:10 pm
    Posts: 250
    Location: Chicago
    Just because it has been an industry pattern to delay release of the dvds of events that took place a year or more ago, that does not justify the failure to release them in a timely manner. Has any promoter or producer posted on this board any reasonable explanation for these delays?

    Plus, FFF asked for pre-orders and stated the dvd of the February event would be available in May. Where is it? If mom and pop production companies that produce various types of female fighting videos (whether competitive or scripted) can get their videos out within days or weeks of shooting them, I fail to understand any reason for the promoters of these events to find a reliable company to film, edit and release the dvds in a timely manner.
    Barry
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    Sako
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:35 am

    Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:39 pm
    Posts: 327
    local13 wrote:
    Just because it has been an industry pattern to delay release of the dvds of events that took place a year or more ago, that does not justify the failure to release them in a timely manner. Has any promoter or producer posted on this board any reasonable explanation for these delays?

    Plus, FFF asked for pre-orders and stated the dvd of the February event would be available in May. Where is it? If mom and pop production companies that produce various types of female fighting videos (whether competitive or scripted) can get their videos out within days or weeks of shooting them, I fail to understand any reason for the promoters of these events to find a reliable company to film, edit and release the dvds in a timely manner.
    Barry
    Are you talking about companies that make catfighting and mud wrestling videos where girls strip each other naked? Those companies are not part of the same industry as FFF. They’re about as different as the UFC is from the WWE.
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    local13
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:52 am

    Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:10 pm
    Posts: 250
    Location: Chicago
    No, not just those, but some companies like flamingo wrestling, Les Femmes Fatales Productions and the internationally known DWW put out many competitive grappling videos. Besides, whether a company produces real or scripted matches oil wrestling mud wrestling, whatever, that has no bearing or relevance on its ability to get its product to market. My point was that these small production companies can do so and quickly, so why cannot companies like FFF?

    Robin the owner of Les Femmes Fatales Productions recently had a sponsored competitive match against Ziggy, a well known accomplished grappler who recently competed in a grappling tournament in August. Ziggy is a purple belt in bjj and has fought tough opponents like Helen Von Mott. The Ziggy-Robin match was videotaped on a Sunday afternoon and was available as a download or dvd the next day!

    With today’s modern technology there is not excuse for getting a quality video to market in a reasonable time frame–other than total incompetence as evidenced by companies like FFF.

    Barry
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    femalefightfan
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:30 pm

    Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:45 pm
    Posts: 45
    Yeah. Total incompetence, there’s no other explanation.

    Their website said “available in May”, then something like “available in July”, and it’s been stuck on “coming soon” for months!

    When these pre-orders were being taken, I’ll bet they never said a word about when the videos would be out.

    And they had the sample video on their site way back then, so why would getting the rest of the video out be so much trouble?

    Next time some of you go to a FFF event, have someone come with to videotape the fights from the stands, and we’ll look at that video. Hopefully it’ll have a good camera position to see as much as possible.
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    Sako
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:22 pm

    Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:39 pm
    Posts: 327
    local13 wrote:
    No, not just those, but some companies like flamingo wrestling, Les Femmes Fatales Productions and the internationally known DWW put out many competitive grappling videos. Besides, whether a company produces real or scripted matches oil wrestling mud wrestling, whatever, that has no bearing or relevance on its ability to get its product to market. My point was that these small production companies can do so and quickly, so why cannot companies like FFF?

    Robin the owner of Les Femmes Fatales Productions recently had a sponsored competitive match against Ziggy, a well known accomplished grappler who recently competed in a grappling tournament in August. Ziggy is a purple belt in bjj and has fought tough opponents like Helen Von Mott. The Ziggy-Robin match was videotaped on a Sunday afternoon and was available as a download or dvd the next day!

    With today’s modern technology there is not excuse for getting a quality video to market in a reasonable time frame–other than total incompetence as evidenced by companies like FFF.

    Barry
    I understand what you mean, but those companies are not gonna help female fighters get respect and recognition from the mainstream as fighters like Chuck Liddell and Forrest Griffin, or as female athletes like Anna Kournikova and Maria Shaparova. These are niche companies catering to relatively small audience, so is FFF, but atleast they have ambitions to expand their market and become a popular mainstream show like the UFC someday. I don’t understand why people watch such retarded fake or unskilled female fighting/wrestling. It’s degrading to real female fighters/wrestlers and makes them seem slutty. Why don’t those girls just do straightforward “smile in vagina” smile that way nobody will confuse what they do with what Debi Purcell or Gina Carano does. But I do agree that FFF is rediculously clumsy when it comes to getting their DVD out, just don’t consider DWW’s model of business applicable to FFF. Since the beginning of time, it has always been in the male instinct to enjoy girl on girl fighting, but for most of recent history there haven’t been many venues to watch this type of spectle. Companies like DWW and even the WWE have been making a good cash in on the lack of real professional female fighting, while making it harder for real female fighters/wrestlers to be taken seriously.
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    local13
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:36 pm

    Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:10 pm
    Posts: 250
    Location: Chicago
    Sako,

    My only point was that smaller operations than FFF and hooknshoot can get their dvds of their matches to market very quickly, so there is no excuse for the outfits that run MMA events to take a year or more to do so, or to mislead the buying public to pre-order dvds when they are unable to deliver them in a timely manner.

    I was in no way commenting on other female fighting companies’ impact on female MMA. It is comparing apples to oranges. However, the dvd issue is one they share and the smaller female fighting producers seem to outshine the MMA outfits–by a lot!

    Barry
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