Kelly Kobold ranked #1 woman’s fighter…

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    Chad Moechnig
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    kneesandelbows
    Post subject: Kelly Kobold ranked #1 woman’s fighter…PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 12:51 pm

    Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 12:45 pm
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    Thoughts?

    Discuss

    Full list of rankings

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    starbellykeith
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:05 pm

    Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 12:09 am
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    You pay attention to that poll?

    KM

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    kneesandelbows
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:29 pm

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    Is there another one I need to be aware of?

    More accurate perhaps?

    Is the mma rankings one not worth crap?

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    starbellykeith
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 10:30 pm

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    It’s a popularity contest open to the public with stats thrown in. I just voted for the first person on the list to be first place, second person second place, etc. Then I went to Kinkos and voted again. Using my laptop and wi-fi I voted a third time. This is without invloving anybody else like gym members or family. I’m too busy to travel to other internet access places to vote some more but point is I could. All it does is log your IP address, not even asking to log in. I didn’t even have to waste time with multiple names.

    On that poll there is no consideration for holding a belt (BTW Howe has at least one not listed there), level of events, who they train with, or opponents’ records.

    A fighter’s record is too easy to pad, especially in the women’s divisions where it’s not unusual to see over two-thirds of a fighter’s record being against people that were 0-0 or had losing records.

    Most of the real competition in the women’s divisions has been at 135 and Kelly is out of that class. When at least one fighter was willing to go up in weight to fight her anyway her manager refused. Also wouldn’t compromise with Erin to meet between weights but that I can understand. Best at 145-150 or so I have no objection. Best overall? Hell no.

    I’d even rank Amanda Buckner above her despite Amanda’s 4-3-1 record due to *how* Amanda fought and who she fought. Actually there are only two or threee women I respect more than Amanda. Records below the “feeder show” level don’t mean jack to me.

    I’m not saying I don’t like Kelly, I hear she is nice and fully support anybody willing to step in there. I’m just saying her popularity is all hype so far.

    ‘Scuse me while I vote another half dozen times,
    KM

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    starbellykeith
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 10:37 pm

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    One thing I should clarify is I have no reason to believe Kelly is respnsible for any of that. I have never spoken to her to the best of my knowledge.

    KM

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    chad
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:53 pm
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    If you want to be the best you have to beat the best…………… Rankings should never be voted by the general public and this is a good example…

    Chad

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    kneesandelbows
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:48 pm

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    I think it’s stupid to have an open weight ranking system anyway, the lighter weight fighters are all more technically sound, and the heavies just muscle around their opponents for the most part.

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    Executioner
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:00 am

    Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 1:48 pm
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    Location: Netherlands
    Where are the dutch in the rankings? 8)

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    Mark Grassman
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:19 pm
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    The Mixed Martial Arts Collective is the single most complete MMA ranking for women. SFUK lists the ratings of various UK MMA promotions, but has just one female: Rosi smile.

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    Fight Fan
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:28 pm

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    Given the amount of other women’s rankings there are it is pointless to talk shit about practically the only women’s top 15 available. the formula for the top 15 takes into account the fighter’s record, opponent’s record, the strenght of her opponent’s records, activity and a few other calculations.

    the men’s rankings are pretty much spot on. the problem with the women’s rankings are the lack of frequent fights, lack of fan knowledge of fighters, no weight classes, and a few other flaws. however the fan invlovement in the ranking is not a flaw. if you would like to sit around all day padding someone’s votes then by all means go ahead. i doubt most of the people who have voted on the collective do that.

    as far as kobald being #1, its hard to say, since its a unlimited weight class system. however to sit around and talk about erin or other fighters such as her being tops is silly given erin’s 1 fight in over 3 years. to kelly’s credit she has fought quite a bit. i haven’t seen any of her fights but having that many fights and wins in a division where the rest of the women aren’t as active says something for it self.. to call anyfighter tops at this point is not accurate based on the inconsistency of women’s events and some women not being active.

    however i do commend MMA Ranks for atleast having a top 15 where as none of the other polls even give the women any recognition.

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    starbellykeith
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:17 pm

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    I don’t want to say more about Kelly to be mean to her or bring her rep down, I’m just bringing this up to explain about that poll. I wish Kelly luck and look forward to seeing her career advance.

    “the formula for the top 15 takes into account the fighter’s record, opponent’s record, the strenght of her opponent’s records, activity and a few other calculations. ”

    Look up Kelly’s opponents’ MMA records and you will find a draw to a fighter with a current record of 2-5-1, three wins over fighters that currently have 1-1 records (two were 0-0s when they fought Kelly and one was 1-0 when they fought when Kelly was 10-0-1), and the rest are fighters who in MMA have only fought Kelly. She fights five times a year but against people who haven’t fought MMA or have very limited experience. If there is a formula (I’m skpetical) then I have to conclude it is weighted towards activity, fighter’s record, and poll much higher than opponents’ record and therefore numbers that can be controlled over numbers that can’t.

    I give Fight Fan full props for getting to the bottom line with “however i do commend MMA Ranks for atleast having a top 15 where as none of the other polls even give the women any recognition.” You have a point and I’ll back down from bashing that poll too much.

    Seriously, I wish Kelly success on her journey to try to be #1.

    KM

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    Jeff
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:51 pm

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    The guy behind the site explained his system some time ago. The formula goes like this:

    1) Look at a fighter’s last 6 fights.

    2) Remove any that are more than 36 months old. The remaining fights are what determine the fighter’s statistical score and rank.

    3) Note the statistical ranks of the fighter’s opponents and the fight results.

    X = opponent’s statistical rank among all fighters in MMAranks list
    P = total number of fighters in MMAranks’s list, which is currently 2900+

    a) A win vs. an opponent of rank X adds (P + 1 – X) points to the fighter’s score.
    b) A loss to an opponent of rank X subtracts X points from the fighter’s score.

    4) The final score determines the fighter’s statistical rank in the list.

    The relevant details here are the Last 6 Fights and Last 3 Years cut-offs, which were designed with male fighter activity levels in mind. They would have the effect of giving too much weight to activity where women fighters are concerned, thus distorting the female rankings.

    Last edited by Jeff on Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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    chad
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:17 am
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    I have watched both Erin and Kelly fight tapes and I can easily say Erin has more skill and has been training for years… I would put $$ on Erin for a KO round 1

    Just because Erin has not had an MMA fight in a while.. trust me she is not rusty…. I guess if you don’t want her challenging you and talking crap on you then step in the ring with Erin.

    I am not trying to disrespect Kelly in anyway but I have to say that she is still new and really at amature level…

    to be the best at 135 or open class here are some fighters you must fight..

    Erin Toughill
    Judy Neff
    Jennifer Howe
    Amanda Buckner
    Debi Purcell
    Roxanne M.
    Tara La Rosa
    Laura De Augustine

    here are some names of fighters that you should fight…….

    Chad

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    Erin T
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:50 am
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    Funny – If I said what StarBelly and Chad just said…I’d have the woman herself AND her boy Reilly AND someone else pretending to be a girl (but who is really *ahem*) going APE SH*T! LOL How funny things are.

    What’s funny is Chad has seen tapes from nearly five years ago when I knew 1/8 of what I know now….and I am still beating ppl w/ WAY more experience then me.

    I was kinda thrown into a couple instances – and luckily it worked out for the better. Now that my game has evolved…I am even “luckier” LOL

    I can understand buliding a record. But don’t fight at 160 and then say you’ll only fight me @ 155 C’mon. Because they know what they are doing. Pretty tricky.

    And as fars as not having a MMA fight in 2 years? I had 5 pro boxing fights and never stopped training BJJ. So, basically that means I am ready all the time 😀

    See u in Japan

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    scarce
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:02 pm
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    ..kelly..is the best
    ..the best furniture mover
    ..i have ever seen…
    ….she pushes and pushes
    …and…….(lol)

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    greatlaughter
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:31 pm
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    I agree you have to fight the best to be the best. But even beating the best doesn’t mean you are automatically #1. Kelly deserves props for being prolific. Sure, I’d like to see her competition get thougher instead of staying at the ‘no experience’ level. I think a fight with Erin will make her or break her. I’m sure Erin is always ready & I am really hoping they match up soon. But to get respect, win or lose, Kelly’s got to step in there with more experienced fighters. She’s likely just fighting people they put in front of her though, people who will fight. She’s a nice girl but I do agree with Keith, I put women with less quantity of fights above her because of who they fought and actial technique I’ve witnessed.
    I.E, Amanda Buckner.

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    starbellykeith
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:15 pm

    Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 12:09 am
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    Erin-actually upon returning home last weekend I got this e-mail from Jeff;

    “We need to have a talk.

    You have 3 people ready to fucking brutalize you right now and I’m ready to join in. ”

    That’s all it said. Since that isn’t a way to address me I replied I didn’t have time. Point is I get it too, just not in public.

    KM

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    greatlaughter
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:49 pm
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    What’s up with that Keith?

    It’s so ironic because you two (yourself and Jeff) both devote a lot of time for the same thing!

    You never said when you were coming up to NorCAl. I’ll give you the GracieFighter tour. We’d love to have you Keith!

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    Erin T
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:58 pm
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    WTF does that mean?

    Well, I “heard” that Jeff had nothing but nice things to say about me to some of the girls @ HnS LOLOLOLOL It’s still a very small circle….if you can’t say something to my face – don’t say anything @ all. I am sure I’ll be @ the Feb UFC in Vegas. If there is something Jeff would like to address w/ me – I’ll be there. Otherwise he should shut his mouth. That is, IF he did say something 😉

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    scarce
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:06 am
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    ..wheres the tara photos!!!!!!!!!!need photos…please/////

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    nameless
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:28 pm

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    I chose to remain nameless, as I do not feel like getting nasty e-mails from you girls. But here is the truth. Osborn seems to at least to help out the women, why complain about him? I have seen rev 2 , most of the fights on the dvd aside from Larosa vs Howe. looked as if the girls were newbies. If Kobald is repping you girls as your number one female fighter. You women have a long way to go, even if your male and you are 20-0 fights, you can still have low skill level, and not be ready to fight top level fighters. It Appears this is the case with Kobald. Her stand up, wrestling, and ground are all at a begginer Intermediate (at best) skill level. I admit I have not seen tape on tuffhills, mma. I have seen her box on TV though, Kobald and Tuffhill are not even in the same class of fighting. ladies start learning how to punch straight and learn at least *basic* technical wrestling and ground moves before you step in the ring, it will go far on helping women in the sport. That said, Iv seen a few other tapes. and at least a few girls like Montoya,Howe, Purcell.Larosa, Neff, look very skilled when they fight!!

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    Rox21
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:37 pm
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    well….Kelly wins, right? People have their strengths and weaknesses, right? You don’t see Tito Ortiz switching from knee bar to foot hold to some other fancy submission move, right? he grounds and pounds. Kelly looks like a tough woman. Plus it’s hard to bring 100% of your game plan to the ring.

    I’m not joining sides or anything, but I hate to see a fighter who is trying her best get critisized so harshly so I had to say something. 😕 Even if there are politics going on everywhere. Rankings aren’t as important to ME as who I get to fight, so yeah….

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    nameless
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:43 am

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    tito ortiz?? 🙄 I think not. Tank perhaps.

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    kneesandelbows
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:38 pm

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    I could easily beat the shit out of 20 white trash, bar whores from the crowd, heck I could do it all in one night….

    Should that make me #1?
    It’s easy to sub, stand, clinch, takendown, decision, ground and pound, or basically do whatever you want to someone who has never even considered training.

    The real problem here is the difference between Pro and Amature fights and fighters.

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