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    Chad Moechnig
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    Hook
    Post subject: NAGAPostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:39 pm

    Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:22 pm
    Posts: 131
    Location: Owensboro, KY
    Found this on bullshido.com and thought that it was a great write up on NAGA and a highlight on women entering having thier own division and competing against men. Nice read. For those of you who have been what do you guys think?

    The North American Grappling Association, or NAGA, is becoming the fastest growing, most intense submission wrestling circuit in the United States With competitors flying to the East coast from as far away as Hawaii and Brazil. With several events throughout the year the competitions tough venue has brought names like Matt Serra, Ricardo Almeida, Phil Baroni, Dan Severn, Sean Alvarez, Jeff Monsen and Fransico Neto out to play.

    The NAGA is the creation of Kip Kollar. Anyone who’s ever been to a NAGA before can easily recognize the shiny head and bright smile that Kip always brings the the floor. Kip is a UFC judge and referee and is the head referee for World Extreme Fighting. Kip is also a 2nd degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do and a blue belt in Brazilian Jiu jitsu under Jacare Cavalcante. He’s also a comptetant MMA fighter himself.
    The Naga’s submission wrestling tournaments can attract so many fighters and spectators for its gi and no-gi divisions that the bleachers are almost always full. The competition is extremely intense with some of the best local grapplers, and the occasional superstar, competing for some great prizes. Rather than run his tournaments with an iron glove, Kip is a guy who’s entirely open to conversation. He listens to the concerns of the teams competing and treats everyone fairly. He also offers extremely generous trophies and prizes…we’re not talking about rinky dink mom and pop shop plastic trophies, we’re talking championship belts for the advanced and absolute winners, Katanas, embroidered jackets, 3 foot trophies and even as much as $5000 in prize money.

    This kind of generosity draws some tough cookies from team Renzo Gracie, Loydd Irvin, TSK, Kioto, Tai Kai, American Top Team, Total Approach JKD, Fight Factory, Boston BJJ, and Caique.

    The NAGA also has a women’s division that showcases some of the hottest(often literally) female grapplers on the East coast. Its not unusual for some of the women to enter the men’s light weight divisision….and WIN. Some of the best women’s division grapplers include TSK’s Laura D’Auguste and Renzo Gracies Shannon Logan.

    The NAGA is open to EVERYONE so no matter what your style, if you want to test yourself against some great grapplers this is the place to be. They have divisions from Novice to Absolute and you’ll rarely find the type of sportsmanship that you find at these events.

    Let me give you an example.

    Recently, NAGA held the 2003 Pro-Ams in Florida. Four of the very best teams would be setting their best against each other in 5 weight classes for a 1st prize of $5000. The teams represented were Team Renzo Gracie, Team Loyd Irvin, American Top Team and Freestlye Fighting Academy. This division would be a special division in ADDITION to the rest of the tournament but would definitely be the highlight. The division showcased talented no-gi submission grapplers and former Abu Dhabi competitors like Jeff Monson, Sean Alvarez, Joe D’Arce, Amuary Bitteti and Marcos Avellan.

    After some great fights it would come down to former Brazilian Jiu Jitsu world champion Amuary Bitteti vs. Lloyd Irvin. There was only one problem: Irvin had injured himself in the previous match, at seeing how this was his first competition since breaking his neck, the doctors refused to allow him to continue. When American Top Team found out the that Irvin would be unable to fight, they refused the win by forfeit and agreed to split 1st place and the $5000 prize money with Irvin’s academy out of respect for his warrior spirit. Later on, Lloyd Irvin showed alot of respect for ATT by presenting Ricardo Liborio with the first place trophy.

    NAGA has events in New Jersey, Conneticut, New York, Florida and Hawaii. If you have the opportunity I would strongly suggest competing or at least spectating. Kipp Kollar also runs 2 MMA promotions, Mass Destruction(www.mass destrruction.tv) a Boston based MMA event that will be happening next on August 16th where fighters like Carlos Barretto will be fighting. Kip also sponsors Reality Fighting(www.reality fighting.tv) which will be going Pay-Per-View for the first time in February 2004.

    Whether your a grappler looking for an arena to test your skills or a MMA fighter looking for a fight check out http://www.nagafighter.com and you’ll be on the right track.

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    Rox21
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:25 am
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    Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:49 pm
    Posts: 1334
    Location: Kanagawa/Japan
    I didn’t think mentioning women competed in men’s divisions was a “highlight” of that article, although it’s cool they mentioned it. or maybe it’s because I’m sensitive to that issue.

    I’ve always wanted to wins a men’s advanced division. Always always. It’s been a great dream of mine, even greater than fighting women, but a few years ago Kipp said that he wasn’t allowing women to fight in the men’s division anymore. It’s not fair because the guys can’t fight in the mens! ….and when I thought about it, that’s true…plus there’s the “fighting a girl complex” where sometimes they feel that if they lose, they’re weak and unmanly, but if they win you’re a jerk and muscling.

    So after I got over being depressed because my dream got squashed, I hoped that if women got more recognition, men wouldn’t feel that way anymore and maybe I’d be allowed to compete against men again. I know he lets women do that if there’s not many women in the women’s division, like in Hawaii that time Molly foughts.

    I dunno. 🙁

    But that WAS a really good article! 😀 I’m very proud of Kip.. He’s done a great job and come a long way. I used to go to every event and help and compete and stuff. I’ve been missing them lately…I want to help at the next mass destruction (Even though I wanted to fight and he couldn’t make a match…but I’m going to Japan now anyway, hahaha!) but I love NAGA and it’s given those who train amazing opportunities to compete and better themselves. The trophies and belts and swords are really cool!

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    Mark Grassman
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:58 am
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    Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:18 pm
    Posts: 1011
    Location: Evansville, Indiana USA
    Rox21 wrote:
    …plus there’s the “fighting a girl complex” where sometimes they feel that if they lose, they’re weak and unmanly

    Suck it in, gents! 😥 ➡ 🙂 Losing to a girl doesn’t make you unmanly. 😉

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    Hook
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:12 am

    Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:22 pm
    Posts: 131
    Location: Owensboro, KY
    I have been skimming on another forum and through some very very old topics and they had some very interesting viwes on just that thought about maybe feeling bad about losing to a girl. Not only that but how to train with a girl. And what do girls excpect from the guys when they are grappling? I have thought about bringing the original post over here just because it raises some good questions.

    I guess that in competition that for the guys I can see thier point maybe just a hair as you pointed Roxy, but from the girls. I still see the dream of us being able to compete and win against them. Plus look at how the times are a changing for the women in competition. I think that there is a huge differance now than there was say even three years ago. Can you imagine what it will be in five? So maybe one day your dreams can come true Roxy. You never know that is why they are dreams keep dreamin girl. 😛

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    Anystylist
    Post subject: Needed: more women fighting, period!PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:04 pm

    Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:47 pm
    Posts: 67
    Location: Northeast
    First, that was a great clip, Hook. Kip is definitely the man.

    As to women competing with men, Rox’s dream (and she probably dreams for all the top F competition) raises a major irony of mixed gender competition. Sure, the top Fs want to upsell themselves into matches with the top guys, but are you all willing to take on less experienced guys yourselves? Whether training, sparring, club matches, whatever? Nothing personal here–for all I know, you do–but as a general principle, if you want access, you have to be prepared to grant access.

    But even if this were the case, it still wouldn’t solve the guys-can’t-win situation. For that, we need more women doing the sport at all levels, but particularly the lower levels. That’s where you grow better competition, get a deeper pool of fighters so you don’t have cancellations and whatnot, and ultimately develop a fan base.

    Rox versus Wanderlei Silva once on PPV? Sure, I’d see it. But Rox and ten of her F recruits versus the metro Boston weekend guy warriors, once a month? Now there’s an idea!

    BTW, Rox, I’m not picking on you or staking you to a project–just using you as an example here.

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    Hook
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:56 pm

    Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:22 pm
    Posts: 131
    Location: Owensboro, KY
    Here’s the thing though. I have found or shall I say that it is MY opinion that most of the girls have stronger technique and use that versus their strength. Where as guys have the strength and rely on that and that overpowers their technique. So I find it very interesting when you get a M and a F who are highly skilled but chose to go about the match in totally different ways. I think that is where a lot of the guys have problems, they see it as a test to their strength where as I see it as we ( us girls ) are using what we have first, technique.

    I think that women would have to give up to less experianced male fighters when put on the cards. I just think that is the way it would have to be at first till women made their mark and proved that they are up to the challange and are able to hold their own. I think that it is a sacrifice that would have to be made to get started AT FIRST but there has to be a limit as to what we do to for our dreams. Like what we will lower to, I just mean that we have to demand respect .

    I agree with you Anystylist. There need to be more women fighting, and I think that we will be seeing a major growth in this area in the next few years. But right now I say that we have some pretty good gals out there.

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    Rox21
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:08 am
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    Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:49 pm
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    Location: Kanagawa/Japan
    awsome responses. Thanks guys! I’m always interested in hearing how the general opinion varies from person to person…and as time goes along.

    Hook, you’re absolutely right. 🙂 I ‘ll keep dreaming. After all, what fun would it be to accomplish your dreams too soon?

    Mark G, I’m glad you think so. 🙂

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    voly
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:27 pm

    Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 12:35 pm
    Posts: 85
    If Rox 21 or any other female was to enter a men’s competition category and take first place (or second or third place) it would clearly be an outstanding achievement. After all, what fraction of male grapplers ever gain a place on the winners’ podium?

    However, that isn’t to insist that women competitors necessarily ought to be permitted into a male division. There are fairly obvious arguments for each side of that argument.

    Isn’t the lowest weight class for men commonly 135 or 140 pounds? A large proportion of female grapplers weigh considerably less than that.

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    Anystylist
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:09 pm

    Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:47 pm
    Posts: 67
    Location: Northeast
    Hook, the issues you raised about men losing respect if the lose to women, and the strength versus technique correlation, deserve their own threads. And you should post that old article if you can find it.

    I have two points to make. First, regarding strength v. technique, people with physical advantages often slant their technique to maximize those advantages. Guys may well have technique that’s just as good, but in a competitive situation, if strength gets you the win faster, you might do what works as opposed to do what’s ‘right’ from a self-development perspective. After all, it’s easy to lose sight of the strategic picture when someone’s trying to hit you.

    Regarding mixed matches, lots of attention goes toward the occasional pro matchup. I say get more women in the dojo rolling with guys on an informal or training basis, and over time, the official matches will take care of themselves. Either they’ll lose their freak-show appeal because they’ll reflect common dojo reality, or women will be so busy fighting each other (in an expanded and higher-quality gender pool) that they won’t care about fighting guys.

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