problem with grippers

This topic contains 0 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  Chad Moechnig 1 year, 9 months ago.

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    Chad Moechnig
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    Tig
    Post subject: problem with grippersPostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:34 pm

    Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 7:43 pm
    Posts: 3
    I do BJJ, and a lot of the guys I grapple with have 70 or more pounds and a fair bit of strength on me. I’ve been having problems recently with people getting good grips on me, often on my sleeves, and then using strength and tension in their arms to haul me around. 🙁 This usually happens from the starting position, when we’re on our knees facing each other.

    I’ve been told the first thing to do is try to break their grip, using two hands against their one, but I find it hard to do this without getting swept or pulled off my base.

    Any suggestions?
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    Maulinator
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:59 am
    Pro Fighter

    Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:43 pm
    Posts: 451
    Location: Hawaii, fighting out of San Diego, CA
    I don’t know much about what works with gi grappling, but in no-gi I twist my wrists and arms in tight circular motions (circling inwards works best). Move and squirm alot, it makes it hard for them to get ahold of you – just keep moving.
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    ladygrappler
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:55 am

    Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:08 am
    Posts: 27
    Location: new market, Onatrio Canada
    Tig,
    I had/have the very same problem as you! I found when working with bigger stronger boys from starting you need to do the two on one. Since it is a balance game you need to make sure you are postured up straight. Also to avoid grips , scoot back and posture up. This takes them off balance trying to come with you. Its still a battle im experimenting with so, if you learn anything please keep me posted.
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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:43 pm

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
    Posts: 439
    Location: Louisville, KY
    This is what I do…and it helps (though it’s not a perfect solution)

    When someone grabs my wrist with an iron grip…the first thing I do is move my wrists in small circles (like maulinator mentioned) …turning inside. It’d difficult to describe through a keyboard…but the grip of a human hand is not balanced. The thumb is the opposing part of the grip (along with the palm) and the thumb is not centered on your hand. So there is an opening to get out of the grip. If you move your hand toward the inside and then push your elbow downward (using your stronger muslces such as the trapesius…not your wrist muscles) then the angle of your wrist changes and it becomes more difficult for them to keep the grip. Again, this is difficult to explain…much easier to demonstrate…but play around with it. Have a friend with a strong grip hold onto your wrist and experiment with how to find the opening.

    When doing these small circular moves, I don’t necessarily try to do this to get out of the hold….I do it to wear down their wrist. Eventually, their fingers will start to have less strength in them. It doesn’t matter how strong their are, their grip will wear down. All you have to do is twist around and move around your arm….you may think “well I’m gonna wear myself out too”…and that is true IF you use the smaller muscles that the other person is using (wrists, forearms, fingers). Try to use your larger muscles…place your shin against their forearm and push away…push off from their hips…put your feet on their biceps (like with spiderguard) Do whatever you can do to try to wear down their grip and not wear out your arms.

    Second thing…as they are holding your wrists…treat that as if you were holding their wrists. They are the ones holding onto you, but it works the same way…if you pull, they move forward, because you are attached. The only difference is they could let go at any time, so you have to watch for that. But if you are pulling them and they let go…that is great…you got out of the hold.

    Third, throw them off balance. Use your legs, which are your strongest muscles. What is the number 1 rule for someone keeping their balance? Maintain a wide and solid base. If you disrupt someone’s balance, they compensate by posting their arm or leg out (which extends their base). If they are holding onto you with their arms, they cannot post their arm down, right? Disrupting their balance is the BEST way to counter someone who holds onto wrists with great strength. This is another example of treating the grip like you are holding their wrist.

    Of course, when you do this…they will let go (or be swept). So what you can do is use this method to setup another move…like a kimura…or an arm-triangle…or an armbar….or passing to their back.

    I’m a smallish guy (155-165 lbs) and I’ve always grappled big guys…often big wrestlers. So I’ve had to deal with this type of thing a lot. This is the best solution that I’ve come up with.
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    Tig
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 4:19 pm

    Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 7:43 pm
    Posts: 3
    KnockOut2,

    Thanks for your advice. 🙂

    When you say to move your wrist in small circles, which direction do you mean? Say they’re holding your right wrist – would you rotate it anticlockwise from your perspective?

    Also, do you think the same technique is useful if they’re holding your gi at the wrists, perhaps with their fingers inside the cuffs?

    Tig
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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:20 pm

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
    Posts: 439
    Location: Louisville, KY
    Hmm…I’m not a gi grappler…though I’ve worked in the gi a little bit before. I’m sure there are particular techniques that are better for breaking a gi grip. I would think a gi grip is tougher to break because they can basically grab anywhere that there is clothing, not just your wrist. In no-gi grappling, you are limited on where you can grab. There are fewer handles and it is harder to maintain those handles. Of course, Wrestlers practice thoes same wrist holds over and over, because they don’t have a gi to hold onto, and that is why they have iron grips.

    I would say that the unbalancing concept would still apply with gi holds. If you’re connected, it doesn’t matter if they are holding you or you are holding them…they’ll still move if you pull them in a direction.

    let’s see if I can describe an example of the small wrist circle move… It has more to do with the arm movement than the wrist.,..because you want to use your stronger muscles to apply pressure.

    Umm…ok….here is an example. Hold both hands out in front of your lower stomach..8-10 inches out, like you are hugging a barrel. Take your left hand and grab your right wrist. (In this example, your right hand is YOU and your left hand is your OPPONENT.) Make sure your elbows are away from your sides, so there is room for the movement. Pull your right hand toward your stomach. Turn your wrist so your right thumb is pointed up toward the ceiling. (Now this next move is where you’ll feel the pressure. ) Push your right elbow toward your thigh. At the same time, pull your right hand toward your right shoulder. When doing this move, you should be using your larger muscles of your side and back (latisamus dorsi muscle) to pull your right elbow and shoulder down.

    Does that make sense? You should feel how difficult it is for your left hand to hold the grip…and how the pressure of this move comes mainly from your larger muscles (lats…biceps)…and not the smaller muscles of your forearms and hands. When you do this move with an opponent, you increase the pressure by closing the distance between you and them. (you can simulate that by moving your elbow toward your LEFT leg instead of your right leg)

    Anyway, that is just one example…and it’s hard to explain it over the internet. If I find time, I’ll take a couple snapshots of ideas to break grips.

    Again, I’m no blackbelt or anything…these aren’t perfect moves…but this is what I learned from grappling with bigass wrestlers who try to submit you by squeezing the hell out of your wrists. 😕 🙄
    😉

    let me know if any of that makes sense…
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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 6:53 pm

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
    Posts: 439
    Location: Louisville, KY
    Anyone else have any suggestions?
    I know it’s difficult to explain this stuff over the net
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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:03 pm

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
    Posts: 439
    Location: Louisville, KY
    Hey, I think I understand your question now

    Say they’re holding your right wrist – would you rotate it anticlockwise from your perspective?
    If they are standing directly in front of you and they are gripping your right wrist with their left hand….
    Start at 9:00 and rotate clockwise to 3:00.

    This means move your hand toward their belly button and then up and then outward toward their arm.

    More importantly, once you get to around 11:00, drop your elbow and try to close the distance between your hand and your shoulder. You’ll get your leverage that way and you’ll be using larger muscles.

    One their grip starts slipping, grab their wrists, or else they’ll just get the grip again.
    I definitely think the off balancing moves are more useful. I do the grip-breaking stuff more when I’m standing up with someone. If they are in my guard, I off balance them. Some big strong guy would feel pretty silly if a smaller guy/girl used their own wrist hold against them by sweeping them to their back. They’ll be less likely to commit to holding your wrist afterward because they’ll be scrambling to post their hands on the mat if you even act like you’re trying to sweep them.

    Ko2
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    ABScene
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:27 pm

    Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 5:44 am
    Posts: 26
    Let me see if I can offer some suggestions.

    First of all, don’t allow them to get the grips in the first place; however, if they do grab your sleeves, you should be able to grab theirs. Just circle your wrists (as stated already) and grab their sleeves then immediately go for a sweep. If they are just using their strength to “haul” you around, use that momentum to offset their balance.

    Most people I train with are bigger than me so if they do get control of my gi, I try to make sure I get control right away before they throw me down.

    Does this make sense. Sorry if it doesn’t – it’s late!

    Rebecca
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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 10:47 am

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
    Posts: 439
    Location: Louisville, KY
    yeah, great tip.
    Practice seeingthe grips coming and avoid them.

    It’s just like it’s easier to avoid getting put in a closed guard than it is to break a closed guard. If you make that your focus (avoidance) then it becomes second nature to see it coming and react to prevent it.

    I just thought of another tip to go along with that…if you see them about to apply the grip of death to your wrist, head them off by grabbing all of their fingers except their thumb and hold onto them. It’s the same principal as thumb wrestling. Your hand muscles work better with squeezing than they do with expanding, so whoever applies outside pressure gets the upper hand.

    While doing this, relax your arm and just concentrate on your hand muscles to maintain the grip, so you don’t waste energy or wear your arms out. Let them flail around trying to break the grip. This will frustrate larger grapplers and distract them while you setup a different move (guillotine, armbar, etc).

    Be careful in cometition as some refs might consider this “small joint manipulation”…but really it’s not if you grab all of their fingers then you’re just fighting for grip, not trying to break their fingers. Don’t crank their fingers back. Just hold onto them like in a rodeo.
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    Tig
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 7:18 pm

    Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 7:43 pm
    Posts: 3
    Thanks for all the advice. I’ll see what I can do with it. 🙂

    Tig
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