Showtime/Eilte XC – June 2

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    Chad Moechnig
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    drscruf
    Post subject: Showtime/Eilte XC – June 2 Post Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:31 pm

    Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:46 am
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    I see Gina Carano on the card, but I can’t seem to find her opponent. Is there any word on who will be fighting her?
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    spidermenda
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:36 pm

    Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 8:40 am
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    Location: Ohio
    Oh I thought Jan Finney was going to fight her.
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    MNkkgMMA
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:46 am
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    Isn’t Finney under contract with Bodog?
    Fighting Gina in California with those two minute rounds and that crappy commision would suck. She’s way too good a striker.
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    spidermenda
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:55 pm

    Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 8:40 am
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    Location: Ohio
    I just read where she signed on to Showtime for 3 fights. Do not know
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    Rikki
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:01 pm
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    Quote:
    Isn’t Finney under contract with Bodog?
    Didn’t Julie fight in Elite XC after she had signed on with Bodog?
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    MNkkgMMA
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:37 pm
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    I honestly don’t know what the time frames were, nor the details of Julie’s Bodog status at the time of the Showtime fight.

    Any of the girls out there who have Bodog deals care to comment? Are they exclusive? Does it vary from fighter to fighter?

    How good are Finney’s take downs and her ground game? Does any one think that the 2 min rounds will be a problem in this match up?
    Last edited by MNkkgMMA on Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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    local13
    Post subject: lawsuit probably not viablePostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:00 am

    Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:10 pm
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    Location: Chicago
    Dear Ms. KK,

    I am an attorney with some expertise in the area of discrimination. Unfortunately, the type of lawsuit you describe is not likely to succeed. It is a suspect category and unlawful form of discrimination to treat men and women completely different in similar situations. Thus, if a particular state allowed male MMA fights, but forbade the same for female MMA matches, that would likely be struck down. In California, women are not being denied the opportunity to compete but must simply adhere to stricter regulation, with shorter and fewer rounds compared to other states. The mere fact that other states do not have these restrictions does not in and of itself render California’s rules governing women’s MMA. States are allowed to have differences in their laws compared to other states in the Union.

    A suit against the UFC might have more chance for success, since it is undoubtedly regulated by the states where it is allowed to hold matches. (You need state action of some sort to challenge unlawful discrimination). However, you would need some woman or women to attempt to apply to UFC and get denied before any lawsuit would be viable.

    Political pressure is probably the best way to get the women’s MMA regulations in California changed. Each letter to a legislator represents about $25,000 votes in his or her mind, so a petition drive with a large number of signatures could prove effective. If you had medical personnel who could establish that longer and more numerous rounds would not be detrimental to women’s health, I believe this would be helpful to your cause as well.

    Good luck in your efforts to effect change.

    Barry
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    MNkkgMMA
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:15 am
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    Thanks for your response Barry.
    Last edited by MNkkgMMA on Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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    local13
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:23 am

    Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:10 pm
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    Location: Chicago
    Dear Ms. KK,

    I do not agree with the restrictions either. However, law is not really about justice, but rather, it is about applying complicated, technical rules of law to everyday situations. Sometimes methods other than lawsuits are a better way to achieve one’s goals.

    Barry
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    Maulinator
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:48 pm
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    Thanks or that info Barry. Everyone was so excited when Cali decided to allow MMA throughout the state. But with these regulations the women are so frustrated at being treated differently that no one wants to fight here anyway.

    Can you give me a checklist of actions to take to try and change this? I’d be interested in heading up some petition or something to have it changed. Also, do you know where I can find all the specifics of the particular Bill in question? I just realyl wonder if it’s state law or something the comission is pushing without having something to verifiably enforce. I am all about fighting the power! Damn the Man!

    Anyone interested in helping me out? I had a little bit of experience batteling Legislation in Hawaii when they completely wanted to ban MMA altogether, but am no expert by any means.
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    local13
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:05 pm

    Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:10 pm
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    Location: Chicago
    Dear Ms. KK,

    First you need to know the exact language of the regulations governing the round and time limitations for women’s MMA in California. Once you have that, you should inquire regarding the factors the commision considered in arriving at those restrictive rules. After you have that information, I would contact the commission to determine what one must do in order to get your issue before them at a public meeting. Once you are on the agenda, it would be helpful to have other like-minded persons attending that meeting and willing to speak. I would also present a petition with a significant number of names supporting your proposition that the time limits and number of rounds should be increased in women’s MMA matches in California.

    Here are a few links of interest The first one is an online newsletter of MMA in California, the second is the official website of the California State Athletic Commission, and the third link contains the rules governing MMA in California in pdf format. I did not see any law or rules governing round or time limitations in women’s MMA. That does not mean they do not exist, but that they may not be available on line. You need to see the appropriate regulations before you can mount any challenge or political action to get them changed.

    Good luck to you. If I can be of further assistance, please let me know.

    Barry
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    local13
    Post subject: 5 five minute rounds are the rule in CaliforniaPostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:33 pm

    Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:10 pm
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    Location: Chicago
    A very nice woman who operates this website:  gave me the email address of Armando Garcia, Executive Officer of the California Athletic Commission, which regulates boxing and martial arts fighting in that state.

    Mr. Garcia responded quickly to my email and stated that the rules call for 5 five minute rounds in martial arts matches (other than kickboxing) in California. Here is the exact language of the rule he sent me:

    512. Rounds; Number; Length; Rest Period.

    (b) Non-title martial arts bouts other than kickboxing shall not exceed 5 rounds, each round not to exceed 5 minutes, with a rest period of not less than one minute nor more than 2 minutes, as specified by the sanctioning body. Except with the approval of the commission, pursuant to Section 18748 of the code, title bouts shall not exceed the maximum length or number of rounds specified in this subsection and in no event shall the rest period between rounds be less than one minute.

    However, Mr. Garcia did say on occasion based on the experience of the fighter the Commissio may reduce the rounds to 3 in number and/or lower the time from 5 mintues to 3 minutes per round. I wrote him back inquiring whether there was another regulation that authorized the commission to reduce the numer of rounds and the minutes contained therein. I also asked him if it were the practice to have women’s MMA matches operate under the shorter round/minutes criteria. He has yet to respond to my latest inquiry. If he does, I will post his response.

    At least on paper, women are entitiled to fight in 5 five minute rounds in California.

    Barry
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    MNkkgMMA
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:56 pm
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    WOW! That’s interesting! I can’t wait to see what the response will be. For that Fatal Femmes show no way Rox, Jen, or Lisa would fall under the catergory of inexperienced, at least not enough to deserve 2 minute rounds.
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    Maulinator
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 7:26 am
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    Awesome! Thanks Barry! Let me know what they say, then we can take it from there. I knew it! Those tricky bastards, I knew they were just aking all that up. HAH! Busted!!! That’s the worst thing they could have done – piss off a bunch of female fighters!
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    local13
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 8:17 pm

    Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:10 pm
    Posts: 250
    Location: Chicago
    Dear Ms. Helsel,

    The Executive Director of the California Athletic Commission initially responded quickly to me, but now he has failed to respond to my last 2 emails. Erin Buckness of http://www.mmacalifornia.net says she will call him on Friday regarding the issues raised in my emails, if he has not responded to me by then.

    If Mr. Garcia does not answer my emails, it seems likely that he is tacitly admitting that he applies the MMA rules in California different for men as compared to women, although a clear reading of the rules makes no distinction between gender. If this is in fact the case, California may be liable for de facto discrimination against female MMA competitors I think California or other states could validly pass regulations with different standards for men’ MMA matches v women’s matches. However, where there is no difference in the rules as written, it is generally unlawful discrimination to apply the rules differently based on gender.

    If I do hear from Mr. Garcia, or if Ms. Bucknell gets any answers from him, I will be sure to post his response. In the meantime, below my signature is a copy of the latest email I sent to Mr. Garcia.

    Barry

    Dear Mr. Garcia,

    I was disappointed I have not heard back from you regarding my inquiry whether there were regulations other than the ones you sent me which authorize the Commission to reduce the number of rounds and time of those rounds from the standard 5 five minute rounds contained in the rules regarding MMA matches in California. I want to assure you that I am not interested in trapping you into some sort of admission. Please remember I am an attorney based in Illinois. I just want to be able to properly inform the women MMA participants that I represent of the relevant rules and practice regarding MMA matches in California. Plus, I teach a course in Administrative Agency Law, so the entire regulatory process is interesting to me. I might be able to use this as an example for my class, for instance.

    Here are the facts as I understand them. Please correct me if I am mistaken in any way.

    First, the rules you sent me clearly indicate MMA matches are to be 5 five minute rounds, and there is no distinction in the rules for men as compared to women. Second, you indicated that on occasion your Commission would reduce the number of rounds from 5 to three and may also reduce the time period of those rounds from 5 minutes to 3 minutes. It appears there is no other formal rule authorizing this practice, but that it is done informally utilizing discretion on the part of the Commission.

    An all female MMA event was held in California on February 17, 2007. There were 8 matches that night, most of which involved 3 three minute rounds. However, a couple of the matches involving some of the more experienced women consisted of 5 two minute rounds. Since all of those matches deviated from the standard round and time limitations contained in your MMA rules and a few of them (the 2 minute round matches) deviated from your apparent discretionary authority to on occasion reduce the rounds to 3 three minute ones, I was wondering if you would share the reasoning or the rationale for the Commission’s decision to do so.

    Again, I just want clarification of your rules and procedure so I can properly advise my clients. I can tell you that the impression in the female MMA community is that California has the most restrictive rules governing women’s MMA matches, and as a result some of the top female competitors are reluctant to compete there. I assure you that I am not interested in a lawsuit challenging your Commission’s rules or procedures. To the contrary, no matter the nature of your response, I would advise my clients to pursue lobbying or other political pressure rather than litigation in order to get any rules changed if that were deemed necessary. You told me via email yesterday that you appreciated the opportunity to clarify California’s MMA rules. I am giving you the chance to do just that by responding honestly and completely to this email.

    Thank you for your time and trouble. If you require any further information, or if you have any questions, please contact me.

    Sincerely,

    Barry Rose
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    Maulinator

    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:42 am
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    HAH! You rock Barry! EXCELLENT letter. Nicely worded. Can’t blame him for not wanting to address the issue, the last thing I’d want to do if I was in his position is piss off a bunch of female fighters.

    But let’s give him some time to respond and see what he says. I am extremely curious to see what kind of logic they come back with.

    Also realized we hijacked this thread, maybe post the response in another thread, so other people can follow it easier?
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    anna
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 1:02 am

    Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:16 am
    Posts: 16
    Looks like the fights off 😕

    Just saw it on Sherdog. Stomache virus apparently. Given how far away the fight is I’m a little surprised at the decision. Actually, no I’m not.

    Anyway I hope she gets better soon so the fight can happen.
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