Something is going crazy in Philippine

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    koolpaw
    Post subject: Something is going crazy in Philippine Post Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:30 pm

    Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:02 pm
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    OMG

    what i can say?? it seems that Amanda and Ginele both got in a trouble, especially Amanda…

    OMG

    Last edited by koolpaw on Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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    Maulinator
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:48 pm
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    WOW! That truly sucks. What sucks worse that I would almost bet money (except it’s close to x-mas and I got bills :)) that Ginelle would take the fight anyway but that it’s Josh causing trouble about the weight.

    This really really sucks for Amanda because lots of people have been excited to see her fight again, and here she is ready and willing, doing what she thought she was supposed to do halfway across the world and being faced with the prospect of not only no fight but no money.

    Same thing happened at Bodog. Lisa Ward had a contract that said one weight, Fuji had one that said another. While Fuji hereself was more than willing to accomodate a catch weight, Barnett would have none of it.

    While I will be the first to understand how important it is to make weight for a fight – they are both naturally 135 fighters I don’t see what the big deal is.

    Good luck Amanda in getting this all worked out where everyone wins. Sucks you have to go through all this extra BS outside of trying to prepare for an actual fight 🙁
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    Sako
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:01 pm

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    Maulinator wrote:
    WOW! That truly sucks. What sucks worse that I would almost bet money (except it’s close to x-mas and I got bills :)) that Ginelle would take the fight anyway but that it’s Josh causing trouble about the weight.

    This really really sucks for Amanda because lots of people have been excited to see her fight again, and here she is ready and willing, doing what she thought she was supposed to do halfway across the world and being faced with the prospect of not only no fight but no money.

    Same thing happened at Bodog. Lisa Ward had a contract that said one weight, Fuji had one that said another. While Fuji hereself was more than willing to accomodate a catch weight, Barnett would have none of it.

    While I will be the first to understand how important it is to make weight for a fight – they are both naturally 135 fighters I don’t see what the big deal is.

    Good luck Amanda in getting this all worked out where everyone wins. Sucks you have to go through all this extra BS outside of trying to prepare for an actual fight 🙁
    If that is true, imagine what type of weight drama will unfold during the Shayna Baszler-Gina Carano fight.
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    Maulinator
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:12 pm
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    LOL, I’m sure! But in that case I would actually support the drama….
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    Josh Barnett
    Post subject: Oh reallyPostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:52 am
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    So, Molly, who are you to make a call on any thing about this? Are you here? You involved? What the hell does the situation with Fujii and Ward at Bodog have to do with you? You weren’t apart of that either so again, you are speaking from an position far outside of the matter entirely.

    Further more you are also not a coach, so you can’t speak from a position of experince in that matter as well. I could even say if you have been in MMA even half as long as I have then I would shocked. I don’t “cause drama” and the girls I work with/for and how shit gets handled is none of your fucking business…at least not for you to have anything to say about it.

    I can address the Philippines situation in time and in respect to Bodog, I do what I say and I expect the people I make a deal with to do the same. Pulling some BS like they did (which was all a cause of one main individual) and making my fighter suffer for it does not sit well. I stand up for mine and I fight for them until the last. None of which involves you Molly or anyone else on this board for the most part.

    If anyone wants to cast judgment on this or any situation feel free. Its your choice. However, one side does not tell a story and I know that people like Shayna, Ginele, Fujii, Akano, Sayaka and others don’t work with me because I “cause drama” or any act like a jack-ass in any other sense.

    You got shit to say about me or any of my fighters Molly then feel free to run your mouth on that as well. But honestly, who the fuck are you to say anything?
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    koolpaw
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:21 am

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    oh hey Josh PLS calm, u are going to have 2(we hope it will be 3) fights in Japan this month. Fans are wating for u.

    We wont judge nor blame anyone, if this thread is going negative, i will ask chad to delete, so pls focus on ur fights by now.

    Molly`s post sounded like “gossip” and a bit superficial, but u know she had to cut her weight like 15 or 16 lbs in Cos Tarica, I dont know that details about Molly`s case although i think it was so ridiculous and too dangerous for her. At least she can say something about these kind of troubles from her experience, not others, herselvs though.

    As i have read Amanda`s blog, she didnt say anything bad about coach “Josh Barnett”, she understood ur position in this trouble and kept effort to cut weight negotiating. As the result, ur name had to be written as the person in charge to protect ur fighter.

    Anyways, the tough and rough time u guys spent in Philippines is terrible. Should not be repeated.

    its 2007 now , soon 2008. NOT 1993 or late 80`s the time of original “SHOOTO”(Shooting) had been started. We all know how “open-weight” is dangerous. u did what u had to do.

    But still i feel so sorry for Amanda Buckner…she didnt get treated right at all, AND SHE IS ONE OF THE TOP FEMALE FIGHTERS 😥
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    Rikki
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:09 am
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    This sounds like a bad situation all around. And, Josh, I think everyone understands your position. It’s a shame that Amanda is being punished for the promoter’s mistake, though. For them to have so many big names involved in the card they sure aren’t professional!
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    Maulinator
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:35 am
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    Who am I to make a call on this? Not making any calls, just stating my opinion. No I’m not there, no I’m not involved – just an interested party in the goings on of women’s fighting. I’ll be the first to admit that my comment on the Phillipines fight is purely speculation. Guess what? I am free to speculate all I want.

    From what I know of Ginele, it just seems strange to me that she would turn down a fight like this due to a few pounds. Not when the other fighter is clearly making an effort to find a common ground, not just trying to “stick it to her” on the issue. And it is ironic that you were directly involved in both of these very similar situations. I very well could be wrong and way of base with my *speculation*, but as I said before I am free to do that. And I will stand corrected if i were to find out otherwise. People speculate, we ALL do it ALL the time, even you Josh.

    And just to make it clear – none of this is a diss on Ginele or any of your fighters. Of the two I know somewhat personally (Ginele & Shayna) – I respect and like both of them. I have nothing negative to say about either one. If it was Ginele’s choice personally not to take the fight herself, then I am sure she has her reasons. All I am saying is that it just seems out of character from what I know of her. And again, I could be wrong.

    As far as the Bodog thing, yeah I was there. And yeah I did see/hear things regarding the situation firsthand that completely backs my statement. Did it involve me directly? No. Do a lot of things we all talk about on these forums involve all of us directly? No. But we talk about them because we are interested and that’s what these forums are for.

    I think you and I would both agree that the real issue here is that there is an issue. The thing as a whole really was not caused by the fighters or the coaches *in my opinion*. The real point I want to make is that it sucks when it is the fighters that suffer for bureaucratic, red tape, miscommunication type of mistakes made by the promotor of an event. Especially if it is possible for the fighters themselves to find a common ground between each other to find a positive solution to the problem. But where do you draw the line? When is the fight against the promotor (or the powers that be) become more important than the fight itself?

    So yeah Josh your right, I don’t know the whole story. And maybe if I did I might change my opinion. But I am free as fuck to say whatever I want about whatever I want, whether I am directly involved or not.
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    ShdwPrwler
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:26 pm
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    In case anyone is interested in what happened in the other female fight…..Tonya beat Kat by armbar in the second round.
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    Josh Barnett
    Post subject: Speculation? More like slanderPostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:44 pm
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    Speculate all you want but your “speculation” as you say is just another way of trashing me.

    You say you dont diss my fighters? But you clearly intend to dissrespect ME by coming on her and acting like a cheap US Weekly mag spreading rumors and gossip. You say your a professional so maybe you should act like one.

    And whether you agree or not you are dissing the fighters I work with by talking shit about me. They put their faith, trust, body, heart, and soul in my hands. They trust in me to be there for them and have their backs when needed. You shit on me you shit on them for choosing me to guide them. Why don’t you feel free to go contact Shayna and Ginele and go tell them what a POS I am? See how that goes for you.

    I don’t care about changing your worthless opinions. But now at least when you try to slander someone people will think twice about what you have to say and not take your word, which is based on hearsay, just because you are a fighter. Clearly “professional” is not something you aspire to be.

    For everyone else readin I will make our side abundantly clear soon and without any BS.
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    Maulinator
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:32 pm
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    There is a difference between spreading a rumor and repeating fact. Did the situation at Bodog happen or did it not Josh? What happened there is not hearsay. I already said I was was speculating about the Philipines issue.

    If your fighters feel personally dissed by what I say about you, then for that I appologize. It’s not my intention to insult any of them.

    And quite honestly Josh, I really don’t think you are POS overall. I may not agree with some of the things you say or do, I may not like the way you approach things but that doesn’t mean I don’t have respect for all that you have brought into the fight game. And I’m sure that’s why Ginele and Shayna among others have chose for you to coach them.

    All in all if my opinions are worthless, then what do you care what I say anyway?
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    Josh Barnett
    Post subject: Bottom line.PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:03 pm
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    I may not care personally but I care that you present your opinions as fact to others. That’s where I take offense. Somethings did happen at Bodog but rest assured it’s not completely as you say nor do I feel should you be on a public forum espousing things you were not a part of as fact.

    Don’t bother to apologize to the fighters I work with to me, like I said, if you think poorly of me you can repeat your sentiments to them. You can inform them of terrible decision you think they have made in working with me. Whatever you think is pertinent to make your case to support your choice to spread rumors and gossip on me.

    You didn’t wait, nor seem to care, to hear things from all angles and instead came on here and tried to run my name through the mud as a somene who starts shit and is an asshole. I am an asshole and I am not in this business for friends but I am not dishonorable or uniquely unreasonable which is the portrait you wish to paint.

    To be honest what the hell do you know about me anyhow? Besides meeting my briefly once with Debi and seeingme at the odd show you truly know next to nothing about me. You seem to think you have things all understood when it comes to me but I can’t see how. None the less, I need no apologies or acceptance from you. Say some shit about me again and I will speak my mind on it. If you don’t wish to start shit then don’t say shit.

    BTW, just remember that the things you say and the way you act is not just a reflection of you alone. The people like Matt from North County Fight Club who represent and work with you reputations are reflected upon by your actions. Matt seems like a good guy and I wouldn’t know how he would feel about a fighter he works with gossiping and spreading rumors in public.
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    Maulinator
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:32 pm
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    Well then correct me. Where am I wrong? Contrary to what you might think I do care what really happened in PI and I have been wondering why you have spent all this time arguing with me rather than just presenting your side of the story.

    My appology was to the fighters not to you. How am I running your name through the mud when you are saying yourself that you are an asshole (which I never said BTW). If I were to talk to Shayna or Ginelle, I wouldn’t even bring your name up, I’d rather talk about their upcoming fights and how life in general is going for them.

    I don’t know shit about you, you don’t know shit about me. All I know is what I see, and sometimes actions speak volumes…. And where there is smoke theres fire..

    Matt is a good guy, probably a better person than I could ever hope to be. And I assure you he is well aware of my tendancy to speak whats on my mind, LOL, so is anyone that knows me. And remember that your fighter’s reputations are reflected upon your actions as well.

    With that, I am over this debate between you and I. If you want to take up anything else with me, send me a PM or start another thread. If Amanda or Ginele or Lisa or Megumi tell me that I am talking out of my ass then I’ll drop it.

    But I am happy to play devil’s advocate and pretend I know what went on in PI just to get the thread back on topic. So I ask you this:

    Do you think Amanda was treated unfairly in the whole situation?

    Do you think that there was no other option than to scrap the fight entirely?

    What did really happen in your opinion anyway?
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    Josh Barnett
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:43 pm
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    I’ll answer the actual questions you presented first:

    Do you think Amanda was treated unfairly in the whole situation?
    -Yes I do. Jay and Amanda have spoken to me person to person and they know I don’t think it’s fair. But Its my job to only worry about what’s fair for my fighter, not the opponent. Conversely, they are well aware that if things were reversed then I would fight tooth and nail in taking care of their best interests.

    So far as I know, Jay, Amanda and I have each others mutual respect.
    Do you think that there was no other option than to scrap the fight entirely?
    -They were given options. I and Ginele agreed to fight if she made 132lbs. She made 134 with a top and shorts on. Her blog estimates her naked weight to be around 133.6. So, given there was 4 hours alloted to drop approx. 1.6lbs to make 132lbs and from my own opinions based on how she looked I think she could have made it. She said she couldn’t a didn’t try for that weight. I said then if she made 135 day of the fight would happen. Similar to how in boxing you make weight, fight, then make weight again in the championship matches.

    They didn’t agree to this either. Jay and Amanda decided to argue their case to the promoters and try that route and it didn’t play out in their favor, but Ginele and I both gave our words that the fight would happen if they met either of those terms. Ginele had to diet and cut 1.5 months out from 142 soild to be 130lbs. She made 130lbs. Amanda dehydrated to 134lbs from somewhere in the 140’s. After hydrating there would be a good likelyhood that Amanda would carry a 10+ lb advantage going into the fight. When you are fighting top competition giving up a weight class or two is not in your best interest.
    What did really happen in your opinion anyway?
    -Simply put all were put in a bad spot and I made sure my fighter got paid and was prepared to fight…even if forced to. Amanda and Jay got a raw deal but they didn’t like the options we gave them and tried to go another route to find a solution they prefered and it didn’t pan out.

    I told Jay personally that I think they should have cut the 1.6lbs and it would have been the easiest way to get the fight. Jay knew that if they did that the fight would defintely be on and going back to the promoter was no guarantee. But I don’t hold ill will towards them and we seem to have some mutual understanding in all of this.

    “Speaking your mind” is something people that just run their mouth say to justify their rambling. Speaking one’s mind is worthless if it comes from a point of ignorance. You are ignorant in these precedings so truly, you really didn’t have much to say.

    This was never a debate, this was you trying to talk some shit about me and me informing people that you don’t have a leg to stand on in this or what happened at Bodog…none of which is any of your business anyhow.

    “I don’t know shit about you.” – Which is exactly why you should shut the fuck up next time something comes up that I am involved in and you have no personal knowledge or involvement in. I wasn’t the one to start saying anything about you was I?

    Where’s there smoke, there’s fire? I guess that would be relevant if YOU knew what “fire” was. You make statements based on assumed knowledge and pass it off as hard eveidence. Not only do you not know what “fire” is but “water” is probably foreign to you as well.

    And you are correct in the actions DO speak volumes, which is why the people that work with me -Abe, Fujii, Sayaka, Akano, Ginele, Shayna, Babalu, Monson, Paulson, Oishi, Kondo, Reese Andy, TK, Sakaurai, Shoji, Charlie Pearson, and on- do so. My actions suit me and those I respect just fine. What do yours say about you?

    Josh
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    adriennaaj
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:54 am
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    Congrats to tonya evinger- and i hope everyone makes it back to thier hometurf safe.

    Pankration_MuayThai
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:54 am
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    after all this….

    what were the fight results? How’d the fights go?
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    koolpaw
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:49 pm

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    Results are here

     

    edit and add
    http://www.fightergirls.com
    noticed fightergirls news too

    Seems Josh had sent the results to MMAWeekly in English

    If u read Japanese, Pancrase and a Japanese blogger(who got bought net-PPV) wrote the reports about the event.

    Pancrase (at least u can watch pics)

    Play-by-Play report

    Yunta san(theJapanese blogger) mentioned that most of fights were not so good, the show for PPV had a lot of weak ponints like delayed start time, the bad camera work that was hard to watch the fights.

    Although he also wrote that he got impressed to the female fight “Tonya vs. Kat”
    Last edited by koolpaw on Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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    KhorneliusPraxx
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:24 pm

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    I was really hoping to see Ginele get a win…sucks that it had to play out that way. I can understand the frustration on both ends.
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    Josh Barnett
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:15 pm
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    Since these fights were not match made then sometimes you don’t get the best match ups but I though there were enough good fights to make it worthwhile.

    Macau will top this card though and Ginele vs. Tonya should be anouther fight of the night.

    Josh
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    KhorneliusPraxx
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:52 am

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    Tell Ginele that Evansville luvs her. Last time I saw her she was dropping Jäger Bombs like a champ. She embodies everything I both love and fear in a woman…mostly fear. 😈
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    Rox21
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:29 pm
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    I think it’s totally fair for Josh and Ginelle to demand the opponent to make the weight agreed upon.

    I think it’s totally fair for Amanda to come in at the weight she was told, and not be forced to cut to a lighter weight as a surprise.

    So….nobody’s right and everyone’s right. What a sucky situation. -_- My sympathies
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    warrior14
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:04 am
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    Rox21 wrote:
    I think it’s totally fair for Josh and Ginelle to demand the opponent to make the weight agreed upon.

    I think it’s totally fair for Amanda to come in at the weight she was told, and not be forced to cut to a lighter weight as a surprise.

    So….nobody’s right and everyone’s right. What a sucky situation. -_- My sympathies
    I totally agree. Like Josh said, if he was representing Amanda, he would have been arguing her case just as vehemently. In my experience with Josh, he will tell you what his opinion is and advise me, but ultimately, if I say I want something, he will fight for it, whether he thinks there’s a better choice or not. Ultimately, it’s not his job to choose, he knows that. It’s his job to help me make sure I’m fully prepared in every way possible for a fight, and to represent ME. He does an AWESOME job at that.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:41 am
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    just to make a general point on this issue. i think it just illustrates again the need for “safety nets” included in every contract. if/when weights are not made for whatever reasons or mistakes (whether intentional or not) are made by the promoters then stipulations need to be included in any contract in order to protect each camp’s interests in the event of various “occurrences” which are very common…then, if fighter ‘X’ can’t make weight then fighter ‘Y’ still gets compensated…or, chooses to accept the fight with the weight allowance making it an accepted known in which case they shouldn’t come back after the fact complaining about it. when things are covered and read properly in the contract ahead of time then there should be no real opportunity for any promoter to “stick it” to anyone in the first place (even when that’s not actually the case).

    consider whenever going into any fight contract that potentially shit can happen (i.e. Murphy’s law) and at least make sure there’s enough covered to compensate and warrant the effort going there in either case. this situation is just more educational example of the business/promotional aspects of the sport…which, imo are just as important and valuable in many ways as the physical training itself.

    i do feel for Amanda who has always seemed very honorable and what happened would be virtually impossible to predict. but at the end of the day the responsibly rests with each fighter and their management team to cover their own asses or they are only “sticking it” to themselves and have no-one else to blame but themselves. evidently in this case Josh did a great job making sure his fighter was covered either way, which deserves much respect imo…and, i think others should take note and consider those issues with regard to any future contracts…
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    koolpaw
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:39 pm

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    Amanda has updated her blog telling she will fight for that promotion in March.

    Next fight will be in Macau? damn that will be long flight again…

    At first. Tara was offered to fight for Team Gorker according to the latest interview.

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    abuckner
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:35 pm
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    GFC – I agree with that last part of your post about the fact that in the end it’s the fighters responsibility to make sure the contract situation is in order. But in my case that was not an issue. I do not just sign contracts without reading them. I would never have signed a contract that said 130lbs even if I was told verbally that 135lbs was ok. The contract that I signed was obviously valid enough that I got paid which is not something they would have done just out of the kindness of their hearts. One thing to keep in mind is that even if you take all the right steps concerning contracts, if the promotion wants to screw you it’s then up to you to take legal action. Maybe there are people out there that have the money to do this but I can’t imagine they are the majority, especially considering what most women are making.
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    ShdwPrwler
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:52 pm
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    Amanda – I’m glad to see that the promotion decided to pay you, I think they definitely owed it too you. So in March are you scheduled to fight Kat and is that also when Ginele is scheduled to fight Tonya?
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    abuckner
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:46 pm
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    If things happen like they were talking about those would be the matchups. Who knows if they’ll even have a second event but hopefully it will work out. I don’t think we’ll know for sure until it gets a lot closer.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:50 am
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    Amanda, great to hear you at least got paid. actually what you said about (many) promoters is very true and an issue the GFC is working on which hopefully should help all female fighters. also, i’m really glad you didn’t kill yourself trying to make weight it is not worth coming into a fight like that imo personally i would rather fight any girl a few lbs over and healthy than in near-coma condition trying to cut too much too quickly…
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