Street Fighter vs Practitioner… who comes out on top?

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    Chad Moechnig
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    Street Fighter vs Practitioner… who comes out on top?
    Street Fighter 27% [ 4 ]
    Practicioner 73% [ 11 ]
    Total votes : 15
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    feldmanfighter
    Post subject: street fighters vs practioners…PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:59 am
    Amateur Fighter

    Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:29 pm
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    Location: New York City
    anyone have an opinion on this?

    1) is it appropriate for someone with no formal training to step in the cage?
    2) does it show badly for the sport if a self-acclaimed street fighter can out brawl someone who’s been training bjj, or muay thai, or boxing or any formal style for years?
    3) is this an appropriate match-up for a promoter to make?

    I’d love to hear everyone’s opinion on this!!! 😀
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    Sako
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:14 am

    Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:39 pm
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    I’m not an expert on the issue, but I’m sure most “street fighters” beat up mostly on average joes and almost always get their asses kicked when they fight a real fighter. It’s like a handicap athlete from the special olympics going to compete in the regular olympics against full body-abled athletes, he doesn’t have a chance.
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    feldmanfighter
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:23 am
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    that makes sense… kinda…

    i only doubt it because the street fighter comes in with a totally unexpected style..you know? How does a fighter prepare for that? You can prepare for blocking punches, moving your head, knowing how to defend a submission, but you can’t prepare for a street fight. There are no rules… so maybe that gives the brawler a leg up??
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    kaitlinrose
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:36 am
    Pro Fighter

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    Interesting topic. I think it is probably bad for the sport for a promoter to put a street fighter in with a trained fighter. It seems fairly unprofessional, and maybe takes away some credit from those who spend hours upon hours in the gym improving their skills. There is also much more potential for the untrained fighter to sustain serious injury because of their lack of knowledge of defense.

    However, I think sometimes people who are well trained tend to do things that are “inside the box”, and are also fully aware of the type of injuries they can sustain in an MMA fight. A “street fighter” who is completely unorthodox and doesn’t worry about their own safety can be extremely dangerous. Just because an individual is well trained does not mean that they are aggressive enough to win a tough fight. All things being equal, of course the trained fighter wins, but all things aren’t usually equal. 😕
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    Sako
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:45 pm

    Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:39 pm
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    kaitlinrose wrote:
    Interesting topic. I think it is probably bad for the sport for a promoter to put a street fighter in with a trained fighter. It seems fairly unprofessional, and maybe takes away some credit from those who spend hours upon hours in the gym improving their skills. There is also much more potential for the untrained fighter to sustain serious injury because of their lack of knowledge of defense.

    However, I think sometimes people who are well trained tend to do things that are “inside the box”, and are also fully aware of the type of injuries they can sustain in an MMA fight. A “street fighter” who is completely unorthodox and doesn’t worry about their own safety can be extremely dangerous. Just because an individual is well trained does not mean that they are aggressive enough to win a tough fight. All things being equal, of course the trained fighter wins, but all things aren’t usually equal. 😕
    I think a good strategy then is to go balls out on him before he gets the chance to do the same to you. Maybe come out with a flying knee from the opening bell. If he is a true back alley brawler, then he has probably already sustained a lot of injuries from his street fights and coming into the cage not 100% healthy. Street fighters even get hurt from the fights they won because they just come forward with reckless abandon and exchange blow for blow like Rock’em Sock’em robots. Ofcourse there are million of people that lie about how many street fights they been in to make themselves look tough.
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    feldmanfighter
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:12 pm
    Amateur Fighter

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    i think going out there balls to the wall is an interesting approach… and by interesting i mean i like it! I guess if they never gain momentum throwing haymakers you immediately take them out of their comfort zone.

    On the other hand, maybe slowing it down, really really slow, so they can’t do anything would make them even more uncomfortable than that.

    either way, I don’t think it’s right for a promoter to put someone with little to no formal training in the cage. You would never put someone who didn’t know how to throw or catch a ball in a football game– i mean anyone can run down the field with the ball if no one is chasing them. I guess I would just hope we can build some more respect for the sport by only allowing legitimate fighters in the cage. Then again, its in no way MY call — I mean who am I to say who is a legitimate fighter?[/quote]
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    Jitte
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:22 pm

    Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:36 pm
    Posts: 5
    Location: Illinois
    Can someone who has taught himself gymnastics make it to the Olympics? I don’t think so. I mean sure, he might have more potential than other untrained guys, but he definitely needs some formal training before he even attempts it. The purpose of having correct form isn’t just to look pretty, but to prevent injury as well.

    Then say that the gymnast actually got a coach and began learning gymnastics correctly. He’s going to have some issues for a while re-learning what he had thought he had been doing correctly.

    Sure it would be interesting to see a self trained gymnast in the Olympics, but something about it just seems “bleh” about it to me, and I’d probably react the same way to a street fighter in the professional wring.
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    cosmic
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:25 pm

    Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:56 am
    Posts: 405
    Location: AUSTRALIA
    Sako wrote:
    kaitlinrose wrote:
    Interesting topic. I think it is probably bad for the sport for a promoter to put a street fighter in with a trained fighter. It seems fairly unprofessional, and maybe takes away some credit from those who spend hours upon hours in the gym improving their skills. There is also much more potential for the untrained fighter to sustain serious injury because of their lack of knowledge of defense.

    However, I think sometimes people who are well trained tend to do things that are “inside the box”, and are also fully aware of the type of injuries they can sustain in an MMA fight. A “street fighter” who is completely unorthodox and doesn’t worry about their own safety can be extremely dangerous. Just because an individual is well trained does not mean that they are aggressive enough to win a tough fight. All things being equal, of course the trained fighter wins, but all things aren’t usually equal. 😕
    I think a good strategy then is to go balls out on him before he gets the chance to do the same to you. Maybe come out with a flying knee from the opening bell. If he is a true back alley brawler, then he has probably already sustained a lot of injuries from his street fights and coming into the cage not 100% healthy. Street fighters even get hurt from the fights they won because they just come forward with reckless abandon and exchange blow for blow like Rock’em Sock’em robots. Ofcourse there are million of people that lie about how many street fights they been in to make themselves look tough.
    going ALL OUT on a street fighter straight away in a mma fight might be better for them and not you…as that is what they would be more used to. Street fights are quick, they do not last for long at all. ….. and so if you use good foot work and keep your distance and pick your shots for the first part (up to a minute)…I think you have a better chance this way. (just my opinion).
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    cosmic
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:26 pm

    Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:56 am
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    Location: AUSTRALIA
    feldmanfighter wrote:

    On the other hand, maybe slowing it down, really really slow, so they can’t do anything would make them even more uncomfortable than that.

    [/quote]

    I agree.
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    fightgirl
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:00 pm

    Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:17 am
    Posts: 15
    Location: England
    A very thought provoking & interesting topic!!
    I would like to think that a practioner , of say jujitsu, would win a street fight in the street, as they have most likely been trained to incapacitate their ‘opponent’ (quickly & with minimum effort) with say a punch to the throat/groin, then knee to the head, take down, knee stomp etc etc 😯 … but (most of) these are not allowed in the cage!! Though having the upper hand with more learnt skills i would still think the practioner would win, but the fighters safety would be at risk, probably due to the street fighters lack of control/care even ❓
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    rudrah
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:50 pm

    Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:10 pm
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    Location: Oregon PNW
    “all other things being equal” someone who know what they’re doing always wins as a strategy in the long run.

    But a street fighter who rushes someone with a over-the-top dirty tactic can theoretically disorient or injure the sport fighter in such a way as to create and opening or advantage they can exploit. That is the who idea behind a rush with a dirty move.

    Actually this reminds me of the disadvantage a Police Officer has because of their orientation and attitude compared to a soldier. The Law Enforcement officer uses force to control a situation and keep it from spinning out of control. A soldier is using force to end a confrontation by ending the opposing force.

    👿
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    ladeegodiva
    Post subject: Street Fighter vs PractitionerPostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:30 pm

    Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:45 pm
    Posts: 6
    Location: Reno
    Well in my opinion street fighting is simply another form or style of fighting. These fighters are subject to the same rules and regulations as any other style. Limiting them would be the same as saying you only train in BJJ so we can’t let you go against this person because you aren’t trained in standup. As for safety that is why you train to know how to protect yourself against whatever style you come up against. The risks are equal when you walk into that octagon. There is no guarantee for anyone. You do however fail to remember the safety net of the referee. We are there for fighter safety first and foremost. That includes stopping a match if it is a severe mismatch that could be detrimental to a fighter. The matchmaker is responsible for making a reasonable match! You don’t put someone who has never had a fight (ever) in a pro fight against someone with a lot of experience. You match them up with another start up fighter or start in the amateurs. As for thinking there aren’t any street fighters out there fighting then look at some of your fighters more closely. The only way you look bad is if you come into that octagon and you don’t engage! Anybody that has the guts to get in there and put it on the line has my respect. I have seen fighters that I know have trained extensively but when they got in the octagon for the first time all of it went out the window due to nerves and they basically had a brawl with very little skills showing but the crowd loved them.
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    J
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:58 pm

    Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:02 am
    Posts: 238
    Location: Asheville, NC
    Rhonda Gallegos is fighting Mia St. John this weekend & from what I have found, Rhonda has a ‘streetfighting’ background. Looks like she trained for about 4-5 months before her Pro Boxing Debut in November. So I guess we will get to see some street vs. trained action.
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    JDF
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:09 am

    Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:14 pm
    Posts: 196
    I believe some people are just fighters…naturals. But if you put a naturally talented but untrained street fighter against a well trained fighter the odds would most probably be in favor of the trained one. But a talented untrained fighter may take only a year of training to reach the skill and level of a less talented fighter who has trained for years…just my thoughts on it. Not a trained fighter here…have quite a bit of experience at street fighting tho, and a big fan of the pros 😉
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:33 am
    Fightergirls elite poster

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    well Lauren interesting topic, i come from a combination of both backgrounds. so when you say “street fighter” that can mean an entire range of different levels and abilities. there are “Kimbos” and “Kimbums” same goes for females. training for awhile in a dojo throwin on some cool lookin fight gear and steppin into a ring/cage doesn’t automatically make one a great fighter or practitioner…neither does gettin into a few bar scraps with some local hood rats with no skills. there are many street and underground forms (a number which also develop out of penitentiary styles where they have nothing to do 24/7 but train and develop the most effective cqc fighting systems). there’s a whole world of serious fighters you just don’t hear about yet because sanctioned mma is just now finally startin to take off. Kevin (Kimbo) for example i believe used to get a min of 10k per fight without all the usual bs to deal with (i will not get into my personal business in a public forum but will just say there are females who have gotten similar #’s)…however, now he’s dominating some of the best guys and becoming a top contender and one of the biggest draws in MMA. btw Gina C also only had a street fighting background prior to having only a few years training with Toddy and is now already ‘one of’ the top females in sanctioned MT and MMA…

    also we should keep in mind many of the best we see today came from those roots and still do…taoist priests who train all day every day for general spiritual street and every other application also Marco, the Gracie family, Bas, even Bruce Lee did not feel complete as a fighter if he did not test himself on the street IRL situations — in fact much of what we see with MMA today we can really thank him for which actually is a hybrid of styles much like he originally developed with JKD over 30 years ago…also, there are different training methods specific to street vs ring/cage. some girl who has only ring training experience could potentially get destroyed against a well experienced street fighter in that arena or any other, so it just depends on the individual situation. one example when i was 13 fought another girl who was several years older, about 20 lbs heavier, a state golden gloves champ at that time and i kicked her ass pretty easily because she was out of her element and i was more well rounded and experienced even back then before i really got into formal boxing or muay thai. in addition there are many aspects which cannot be taught that i believe separate the good from great fighters. it is those ‘intangibles’ which many natural born fighters possess …aggression, instincts, speed, confidence, heart, and many facets of the mind game, etc….

    so, to answer the question or “poll” i do not think it can really be answered correctly as stated. since there are “street” or underground practitioners with much more ability and experience than some straight conventional ring fighters and vice versa. from a promotional standpoint i agree that can be a difficult situation. many times there is no way to know how much training or experience that “street” fighter may have put in you ideally want to matchup fighters with fairly equal ability no matter how they got there. i personally feel that having both backgrounds, experience, and all forms/styles is the best in order to produce the most complete fighters which can be superior and adapt regardless of what arena, style or situation. 😉

    ~Lisa
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    feldmanfighter
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:46 am
    Amateur Fighter

    Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:29 pm
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    Location: New York City
    Lisa, an awesome and heartfelt response.
    thank you.
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