this may be dumb idea but please read and offer comments

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    Chad Moechnig
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    flyguy
    Post subject: this may be dumb idea but please read and offer commentsPostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:10 pm

    Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:27 am
    Posts: 72
    I had an idea ( I usually throw them away quick but this one has stuck)

    It comes from two things, firstly stress and restrictions in everyday life are probably getitng worse and even ordinary people feel pent up and would like sort kind of antitode.and release from stress. Secondly the “gym” industry hasn’t had a decent new idea in some time ( can you even remember the Step?).

    SO as this is one of the saner MMA forums and has some women on it ( which is possible market for my idea )here goes

    YOu set up say four mats in the studio space in a gym/fitnes center for a sane and safe grappling program for ordinary men ( and women potentially).

    There would be NO macho or striking contact – purely grappling.

    The lowest (entry ) level would be simple “push hands”. There could even be a tilting platform under the mat to even up weight etc.

    Next up is pins only then some limted submision ( no chokes !)

    The steps would go up to open submissions ( but still I would ban chokes)

    Each session would be say 45-60 minutes with warm ups , some flexing and exercise stuff. then some basic holds coaching etc followed by open practice but without too much pressure to win. at all cost.

    It is not aimed at the current mat rats but as a safe and sane exercise based on all the benefits of grappling which is one of the highest aerobic work outs going minute for minute.

    Now some questions

    1) I envisage one trained grappler supervising four mats , this ratio is necessary to make the economics work out.

    Could one guy/gal safely supervise four paias of amateur grapplers , not to judge points or anything but just to ensure safety and offer advice?

    2) Does anybody see “safe and sane grappling as being attractive to people? I think it might given all the Executive boxing etc and the need people have to do something which gets them focussed and so destressed and is not so damn boring as exercise machines.

    3) Would women be any part of the market ( if handled sensibily)?

    Women are actually the majority of fitness center users so they would be a important market

    Maybe all this is a step too far but somewhre out there is the next big idea in the fitness industry and maybe it is grappling turn to invent some variant that has a broader appeal

    Any comments welcome

    If it worked think of all the class fees you could earn!!

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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:39 pm

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
    Posts: 439
    Location: Louisville, KY
    I don’t think it would work. Here is why…

    First, you are missing one huge benefit of grappling, and that is developing skill. You are doing things to promote a more enjoyable grappling experience by removing chokes and being opposed to the ‘competition” mentality. However, for people to get good at grappling, they have to really push. They have to spar (grappling) with SOME real resistance. It WILL be uncomfortable at times. There is really nothing you can do to sugarcoat grappling, because it IS a close-quarters style that requires physical contact with a complete stranger (in most cases). It is very uncomfortable for many people.

    I dunno, your base idea is decent. If you’re really not worried about teaching them skills, but you just want them to derive the benefits of grappling/wrestling, then that isn’t such a bad idea. Then you’re using grappling as a base to develop a well-rounded excercise program. Here is what I would suggest for this…

    Make it drill-based. You can even teach it in a class setting, BUT you MAKE people do a big mix of drills. You have to select drills that not only teach a skill/move, but they also require some form of aerobic exercise. You can do it like in stations, with partners (that they are comfortable with). It would be great for couples. Of course, the focus of the class wouldn’t be on teaching the skills as much as it would be providing them the workout. It will increase their agility tenfold. You could use a class like this to entice people to join a REAL grappling class where the focus IS on learning and developing the skills.

    Just whatever you do…do NOT call it a “grappling” class. That is just as annoying as those “Aerobic Kickboxing” classes where the people really think they are learning to Kickbox….with their arm-punches and weak kicks. It’s just for exercise.

    Honestly, I would love to go to a grappling class that did nothing but drills over and over at a HIGH pace. That is severly lacking from most grappling curriculums. A lot of the grappling guys frown upon drills because they aren’t as “cool” as sparring. I’ve done mostly sparring (grappling) in my experience, but I learned sooooo much from doing the drills.

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    Anystylist
    Post subject: Great idea in theoryPostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:28 pm

    Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:47 pm
    Posts: 67
    Location: Northeast
    The main issue you’d face if you were aiming for mixed classes are the preconceptions women have of men’s intentions. I believe that most women would think that the guys who joined the class were interested in copping a feel. Such women would stay away, or at least ask for gender segregated classes.

    BTW, I think this preconception is wrong, and I really hope I am wrong on this. But I wouldn’t bet against me.

    The irony, I bet, is that if you set up gender segregated classes on the grounds that women need to be protected from men, then the women would be all rarin’ to roll with the guys. But if you set up integrated classes precisely to expose women to guys’ superior strength/size/etc., then most would back out.

    Again, I really wish this weren’t true. But I’m trying not to confuse hope and reality.

    BTW, KO2 makes excellent points regarding the purpose and focus of the class. Best to have two levels: drills-only classes (which are not necessarily simplistic), and free sparring classes which mix both, and for which a drill-only class is a prerequisite.

    Also, better make sure everyone signs those liability waivers…

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    KnockOut2
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:43 am

    Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:19 pm
    Posts: 439
    Location: Louisville, KY
    “BTW, I think this preconception is wrong, and I really hope I am wrong on this. But I wouldn’t bet against me. ”

    I would guess that about 1 out of every 10 guys would be too irresponsible with their smile to be respectful while grappling a woman. In many gyms/dojos, the instructors are strict about being respectful, but what usually happens is that the guys wait until after class to make comments about the women in the class. I’ve trained at a community center where it was just us guys and no instructor. You could talk or act however you wanted. Occassionally, women would show up to learn some grappling. As soon as the women left the gym, comments would ensue from various men in the room. Sometimes, they would make comments while the women were still there, like making faces or mouthing the words “Dayum!!…she’s hot!!!” or some other childish crap. Sometimes, when a girl would show up, a couple of the guys would start arguing about who gets to grapple her first.

    This shit…sucks. But, it’s something worth knowing about. It’s not useful to be naive about it. If I were to run a coed class, I would pair people up myself, as the instructor. Or, I would heavily suggest that women bring a friend or their husband/boyfriend/partner to train with.

    I think that when women get to a certain level of skill, the men who grapple them are more worried about looking bad than they are thinking of copping a feel. So, that might change things in some circumstances, but not always.

    I’m sure there are gyms/dojos which truly promote respect and they clamp down on disrepectful behavior. I’m also sure that is a very rare environment. Some instructors may have that intention of promoting respect, but it doesn’t actually get through. The guys just wait til after class or when the teacher is out of ear range.

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    flyguy
    Post subject: dumb idea but..PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:59 pm

    Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:27 am
    Posts: 72
    I really like the wrestling drills as a class idea ( for men and women).

    The great thing about grappling/wrestling ( and Judo) is that it is an aerobic, strength and flexibilty exercise all in one. Very few exercises can clalm that and when people don’t ( in 90% of clubs) go for more than 1 or 2 60 minute sessions aper week ny class ofering all three aspects has to be cool.
    a
    BTW I wsn’t ruling out actual competition in my idea , I just think it has to be short and contolled to a safe level to get guys/girls to be brave enough to try. Maybe 10 minutes of supervised free practice at the end?

    On mixed drills I think the key word is consensual at all times.

    If a couple want to roll ( in the mat sense ) and respect each others abilties that is a good way to go. Pairiig off at an instructors direction is OK for truly commited fighters but it aint going to be consensual so troubles will usually arise and the women will feel intimidated.

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