Who would win a Bodog rules MMA fight?

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    Chad Moechnig
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    Who would win a Bodog rules MMA fight?
    Gina 38% [ 6 ]
    Cris 63% [ 10 ]
    Total votes : 16
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    rudrah
    Post subject: Cris CyborgPostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:11 pm

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    A friend showed me 2 tapes from Brazil of Cris Cyborg who seemed ferocious to me… but I think she is maybe a good Match for Carano…and she’s a woman Gina wouldn’t have to diet to dance with.

    Name Cristiane Cyborg –> Cristiane Cyborg (70kgs) = 154.32 POUNDS!

    * see Carano quote below

    Record 4 – 0 – 0 (Win – Loss – Draw)
    Wins 3 (T)KOs (75.00%)
    1 Decisions (25.00%)
    Result Opponent Method Event Title Date Round Time

    Win Marise Vitoria TKO (Corner Stoppage) SS 12 – Storm Samurai 12 11/25/2006 1
    Win Elaine Santiago TKO (Corner Stoppage) SS 11 – Storm Samurai 11 5/21/2006 1
    Win Chris Schroeder TKO SS 10 – Storm Samurai 10 1/28/2006 1
    Win Vanessa Porto Decision (Unanimous) SS 9 – Storm Samurai 9 11/20/2005 3
    So I youtubed her name and found these… for the folks like me who just got a check from the Fatal Femme Fight returning my DVD money.

    Cris Cyborg

    CRIS CYBORG Top Women’s MMA Fighter (a promo video)

    Cris Cyborg (Chute Boxe) vs Edna Gloria

    Cris Cyborg (Chute Boxe) vs Marisa

    Cris Cyborg (Chute Boxe) vs Elaine Santiago

    Cris Cyborg Highlight para o BBB

    Cris Cyborg (Chute Boxe) Vs Vanessa Porto part I

    Cris Cyborg (Chute Boxe) vs Vanessa Porto Part II
    PS:

    * Gina on weight:
    GINA CARANO QUOTE: “Gina Carano: Yea I’m 5’8 and I was 175lbs. and now I fight at 140lbs, so. ” “or so”? Okay.
    Last edited by rudrah on Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:46 am, edited 6 times in total.

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    Sako
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:31 pm

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    Cris Cyborg is one of the very few girls Gina Carano’s size that isn’t too seasoned for her. They’re about equally skilled in the standup game, Cyborg probably has the advantage in the wrestling considering she’s competed in freestyle, but then again GSP outwrestled Koscheck. She shouldn’t be a slouch in jiujitsu considering that she’s Brazilian and trains with Chute Boxe. According to Sherdog, she has hasn’t fought once this year, so hopefully we’ll see her in 2008.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:20 pm
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    Cris is an aggressive balanced fighter and at least as of last year was well conditioned, but not sure where she is currently having not fought for over a year much like where Erin is right now other than being in the best physical (weight) condition i have ever seen her in. imo no other females are at Gina’s standup level (if she’s conditioned) other than a few outside MMA who’ve yet to transition in such as Gemaine or Julia Budd. although Erin may be pretty close now at the quicker weight it will be interesting to see where she’s at. Cris has power but more looping strikes and lacks slipping punches, knees, kicks, head movement and speed where she could get picked apart by Erin or Gina…even Porto (who’s much smaller and primarily a ground specialist) nailed and dropped her with a hook.

    Cris still needs to fight a higher skilled opponent closer to her natural size to properly gauge where she’s really at…

    so i think maybe Cris/Elaina Maxwell would be good at this point since she has been a bit inactive…and on the other side maybe Gina/Marloes depending on what weight Gina ends up at when she finally gets in shape properly, she could easily end up ripped at 135…or, if she builds more mass solid 145 range, evidently both divisions are in the plans and then she can float up or down so we shall see which one ends up first…
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    Sako
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:21 am

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    When Gina did Muay Thai and when she had first mma fight with Leiticia Pestova, she used to have a more athletic built. Cris Cyborg hasn’t fought for a year, she may have let herself go little bit also, who knows.
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    rudrah
    Post subject: Gina Carano vs. Laticia Persova – Girl Ground n PoundPostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:17 am

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    World Extreme Fighting

    Gina Carano vs. Laticia Persova

    Summer 2006 – New Orleans
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    Sako
    Post subject: Re: Gina Carano vs. Laticia Persova – Girl Ground n PoundPostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:57 pm

    Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:39 pm
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    rudrah wrote:
    World Extreme Fighting

    Gina Carano vs. Laticia Persova

    Summer 2006 – New Orleans
    Why was Leiticia even allowed in the cage with Gina? Not only was she the smaller girl, but she’s not even physically fit like Julie Kedzie either.
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    local13
    Post subject: weight an issue for Gina then, too!PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:20 pm

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    Plus, in the introductions, both fighters were announced at 135 pounds. I bet Gina was closer to 150 and Leiticia closer to 125. I saw this entire event from WEC on PPV in June of last year and I remember the obvious disparity in weight, and the fact that the event promoters purposely mislead the viewing public on that important statistic.

    Barry
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:08 am
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    Sako is right, Gina was in better condition at that point coming off more strict Muay Thai training with Toddy. i was there for that fight only a few feet away Gina was prob only 135-140 even by fight time still lean and very quick notice the hand speed from G&P position. this was Gina’s first MMA fight having almost zero ground and Leiticia has an extensive background in martial arts/grappling and had much more (over 10 years) of formal training experience…but, as i said Gina (when in condition) is an f’n beast.

    so yes in the comparatively crappy condition she has been in lately Cris would have a better chance, but when/if Gina finally starts getting serious and conditioned that % for Cris winning or anyone else will go way down imo…
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    Rikki
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:19 am
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    GFC wrote:
    this was Gina’s first MMA fight having almost zero ground and Leiticia has an extensive background in martial arts/grappling and had much more (over 10 years) of formal training experience…but, as i said Gina (when in condition) is an f’n beast.
    Not to get off topic, but I don’t think that Leticia’s kung fu training – even if it was 10+ years – compares at all to Gina’s Muay Thai in the realm of MMA.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:07 pm
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    well true but she’d also been training Jiu-Jitsu (a main form in the realm of MMA) since 94′ it’s now 07′ so that’s 13 years far more ground experience and says her specialty is grappling as well as having standup experience plus the kung fu…while Gina only had around 3 years of MT at that point and zero ground….

    Rikki wrote:
    Not to get off topic, but I don’t think that Leticia’s kung fu training – even if it was 10+ years – compares at all to Gina’s Muay Thai in the realm of MMA.
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    Sako
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:14 pm

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    GFC wrote:
    well true but she’d also been training Jiu-Jitsu (a main form in the realm of MMA) since 94′ it’s now 07′ so that’s 13 years far more ground experience and says her specialty is grappling as well as having standup experience plus the kung fu…while Gina only had around 3 years of MT at that point and zero ground….

    Rikki wrote:
    Not to get off topic, but I don’t think that Leticia’s kung fu training – even if it was 10+ years – compares at all to Gina’s Muay Thai in the realm of MMA.
    According to this thread, Leiticia made up a lot of her records, credentuals, and “tough girl” stories, and that most female fighters hate her:

    http://www.fightergirls.com

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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:36 pm
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    well if she purports certain things, years of training/experience, has her legit license and medicals, calls people out and chooses to get into the cage with Carano or anyone else, then both she and her handlers are well aware of what she’s doing and so that’s how it goes…

    but with the other shit she evidently did i can understand why those who dislike her would feel that way…
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    mindfull
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:35 pm

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    GFC wrote:
    Cris is an aggressive balanced fighter and at least as of last year was well conditioned, but not sure where she is currently having not fought for over a year much like where Erin is right now other than being in the best physical (weight) condition i have ever seen her in. imo no other females are at Gina’s standup level (if she’s conditioned) other than a few outside MMA who’ve yet to transition in such as Gemaine or Julia Budd. although Erin may be pretty close now at the quicker weight it will be interesting to see where she’s at. Cris has power but more looping strikes and lacks slipping punches, knees, kicks, head movement and speed where she could get picked apart by Erin or Gina…even Porto (who’s much smaller and primarily a ground specialist) nailed and dropped her with a hook.

    Cris still needs to fight a higher skilled opponent closer to her natural size to properly gauge where she’s really at…

    so i think maybe Cris/Elaina Maxwell would be good at this point since she has been a bit inactive…and on the other side maybe Gina/Marloes depending on what weight Gina ends up at when she finally gets in shape properly, she could easily end up ripped at 135…or, if she builds more mass solid 145 range, evidently both divisions are in the plans and then she can float up or down so we shall see which one ends up first…

    I can`t believe you made that statement. Gina is nowhere near the top five imo. Cris is by far more proven than Gina. I don`t think it would be a close fight.
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    Sako
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:47 pm

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    mindfull wrote:
    GFC wrote:
    Cris is an aggressive balanced fighter and at least as of last year was well conditioned, but not sure where she is currently having not fought for over a year much like where Erin is right now other than being in the best physical (weight) condition i have ever seen her in. imo no other females are at Gina’s standup level (if she’s conditioned) other than a few outside MMA who’ve yet to transition in such as Gemaine or Julia Budd. although Erin may be pretty close now at the quicker weight it will be interesting to see where she’s at. Cris has power but more looping strikes and lacks slipping punches, knees, kicks, head movement and speed where she could get picked apart by Erin or Gina…even Porto (who’s much smaller and primarily a ground specialist) nailed and dropped her with a hook.

    Cris still needs to fight a higher skilled opponent closer to her natural size to properly gauge where she’s really at…

    so i think maybe Cris/Elaina Maxwell would be good at this point since she has been a bit inactive…and on the other side maybe Gina/Marloes depending on what weight Gina ends up at when she finally gets in shape properly, she could easily end up ripped at 135…or, if she builds more mass solid 145 range, evidently both divisions are in the plans and then she can float up or down so we shall see which one ends up first…

    I can`t believe you made that statement. Gina is nowhere near the top five imo. Cris is by far more proven than Gina. I don`t think it would be a close fight.
    I don’t think GFC said Gina was in the top 5, she just said that she would give Cyborg a hard time if she comes in physically fit and well-conditioned. And how is Cyborg more proven? In all her fights, she just beaten down on girls who were afraid to fight her. Just like Gina, the only big name opponent she beat was a fighter in the next lower weight class. I don’t know what Cyborg’s muay thai credentuals are to compare them to Gina’s, but if anything their mma records are quite similar and on paper seem like good opponents to match-up against one another. Both might have skills that they haven’t shown in a fight yet, so we’ll never know how it’ll actually play out.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:05 am
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    mindfull, you’re welcome to your opinion. i am critical of Gina where i feel it is appropriate but also give credit in the same fashion. many seem to feel (or talk about) Julie Kedzie, Tonya, Rosi, and Elaina as if they are just a bunch of “cans” picked for easy wins this is FAR from the reality. any one of those girls would be a valid threat to beat any other top fighters. so those are all *very* high quality MMA girls that Gina beat even though having poor conditioning and almost zero ground (which is like 50% less mma arsenal) plus having even very little (around 3 years) formal fight training altogether.

    yes i happen to take ALL those factors into consideration. now others don’t seem to have any problem putting Sarah Kaufman in top 5 range or higher when comparably she’s only fought and beaten 1 legit top 10 girl so far…plus, Sarah *does* have ground experience. same with Cris who has serious bjj training/experience yet also only really fought 1 legit top 10 girl Vanessa who’s truly a smaller girl than Cris not just blown up pasta weight from not conditioning but actually ‘solid’ at that higher weight. so yes when any fighter despite not being near physical potential condition, weakens themselves further by poorly cutting weight last minute, has almost no ground and *still* beats more high level opponents then absolutely imo they have proven more and deserve to be ranked higher.

    now this takes nothing away from Sarah or Cris who i’m also very high on, just that they have not faced and beaten as many high level opponents, particularly with all those other factors against them. Gina has beaten more and better opponents so why on earth would she not be ranked higher? do i think Gina is the best? no. not yet because she has not beaten the best…but, i do think she the best standup fighter currently in female mma and certainly could beat anyone with that part of her game…and (if conditioned and finally gets serious) could potentially be the best.

    so yes as Tara mentioned i also feel it will be disappointing for the sport and prospective opponents if she does not raise her professional bar and maximize her potential.

    hey that is my view based on those facts and others are welcome to their opinions…

    Sako
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:27 am

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    GFC, I think you’re giving Gina a little too much credit for beating her opponents than she deserved. 1) Fighters shouldn’t be ranked for beating up fighters in lower weight classes regardless of if they’re top 10 in that weight class or not. Rosi smile is 125 lb fighter, she probably can fight at 115 if she wanted to, Gina beating her is like Matt Hughes beating up on a featherweight or batamweight, it doesn’t prove anything. Rosi smile was forced to take that fight because she came to Vegas all the from England, even though the matchmaker screw things up by having two girls that are three or four weight classes apart fight each other. Julie Kedzie is not as small or as overmatched as Rosi, but still it doesn’t mean much since Gina fought someone from a lower weight class. If she made 135 for that fight, then maybe she will be ranked in that weight class. No disrespect to Elaina Maxwell and Tonya Evinger, they’re both good athletes with good credentuals in other sports(wrestling and kickboxing), both are still amateurs in mma.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:28 pm
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    Sako, like i have said many times Gina is a ‘blown up’ fighter simply been out of condition. Gina is easily a 135 fighter just in the shell of an overweight 140+er. Rosi is a VERY top 125 mma experienced fighter second to only Fujii was undefeated and that was only Gina’s 2nd fight so coming in 4 lbs over balanced with Rosi’s being one of the very top ground girls was an accepted risk, there should have been additional contractual safety nets and unless something was not done on their part travel and expenses should have at least still been covered regardless. Rosi’s camp accepted the fight knowing she was a over but knew she had no ground so decided to take it. Rox fought Marloes with prob a 20+ natural weight diff and it was nowhere near Marloes 2nd mma fight and she’s well seasoned in ground in fact one of the best…

    as for Julie, she’s both a top ground and standup mma experienced girl who had a close decision with Tara and beat Kelly who also almost beat Tara, Gina soundly beat her in even tho having no ground and being out of condition weight, it was not solid “she’s in a higher weight class” type weight and she was still barely over. hell, even her clothes and extra “pecs” prob accounted for 3+ lbs right there…Julie also fought Jen Case twice who’s naturally way bigger than Gina and has far more experience.

    with Elaina Gina moved up considerably above her natural weight and Elaina is *quite* formidable…let most of the other top natural 135ers try moving up to fight her would have a very long and unsuccesful night imo…

    as for Tonya she’s also WAY more formally experienced particularly with ground 13 years wrestling, 4+ years bjj yet Gina even with very little comparable ground reversed and sub’d a top ground girl at her own game. Tonya already sub’d and beat Ginele soundly so her being a novice or not a top fighter is ridiculous…

    meanwhile Sarah only beat 1 top 10 fighter so far Ginele who Tonya beat and Gina sub’d. Cris only beat 1 Vanessa and that was not even recent (over 2 years ago) Porto is a different more experienced fighter now (who wasn’t even ranked when they fought) so in reality Cris has fought zero…plus, in that case Cris was actually the solid naturally bigger fighter not just a ‘blown up’ 135er out of condition. in fact she was 15-20+ lbs bigger than Porto before/after cutting weight yet i don’t see anyone saying much about that compared to Gina’s .1 pasta weight is a joke really…furthermore, if any logic holds that a fighter should not be given credit for wins below their weight class then Cris (who *is* legitimately way bigger than Vanessa) shouldn’t even get credit for that so hasn’t beaten any top ranked fighters at all… 😉

    hey Gina’s “140 weight division” in reality is simply an “i’m way overweight out of condition and need to cut last minute so 140 would be easier to make division”…she is ranked #2 at 145 and well deserved. granted, if she wants any higher needs to get her butt AT weight the right way either lower or higher divisions and beat the other top fighters…
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    Sako
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:02 pm

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    Okay, what excuse does Gina have for not making the weight she’s suppose to fight in. Karo Parisyan lives the same “I see food, I eat it” lifestyle as Gina and has kebab belly, but has never failed to make 170 or had the promoters reassign the fight at a catch weight of 175. What excuse does she have for not staying in shape as professional athlete? All the guys that made it as fighters made it because of their hardwork and sacrifices. Most of the female fighters did too, but Gina is their “postergirl” and as Dana White said “she doesn’t make weight 90% of her fights”. I think a professional athlete act like one, and shouldn’t let off the hooks for certain things just because she’s a hott chick. If Gina continues to come in out of shape and barely making 141 for her fights, people are gonna start wondering what’s up. It doesn’t matter if Rosi is a top 5 125 pounder, Gina was still beating up a girl that was way smaller than her. Any semi-skilled fighter can stomp on someone who competes three weight classes lower, it’s not an impressive feat. An Ultimate Fighter reject can overpower and beat Tara LaRosa, but everyone will say “he just beat up on a girl”. Her wins over 135 pounders won’t be legit until she actually makes 135. You make so many excuses for Gina Carano, you make her look more rediculous she already looks in the eyes of serious mma fans.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:24 pm
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    first off i never made excuses for her not making weight i simply explained why, she ate too much and didn’t condition properly. i have been one of the most critical it’s unprofessional and could give a f*ck if i make her look worse in areas she (admittedly) deserves it i’m glad and my whole point is making her look worse for that, so that’s fine. HER excuse is very simple for not making weight, lack of nutrition (eating junk, partying, etc.) not conditioning or training, and waiting last minute to cut weight. i have no clue what Karo’s particular issues are, what his television shows, endorsements, interviews, party, training, other various schedules are, when he starts his cuts, etc. etc….and many many other fighters have not made weight and there have been far greater weight differences both male and female…it just becomes a bigger issue because it’s “Carano” and she has so much publicity and other shit going on so she’s been under more of a microscope…

    niether MMA “fans” nor the general public are fighters and the majority of bs rumors that circulate on Sherdog’s (mostly like rejected former WWE fans) message boards and other sources are just bias gossip which i couldn’t care less about…

    there are *many* other cases where smaller guys or girls like Rox beat up bigger girls Marloes and so you’re way off that any bigger fighter can just easily beat a top smaller fighter. Yab beat Gundarenko with about a 200 lb weight disadvantage! plus i just explained Gina is not in reality a bigger girl (like Cris actually is)…go eat a bunch of junk food, party, don’t work out and see what kind of athletic condition you’re in. it’s conditioning and body composition (quality weight) which is what counts not what the scale reads.

    so your same logic is making excuses for Cris being (actual and solidly) way bigger than Vanessa yet i don’t see you mentioning that, it’s a double standard and an even much worse one because (in reality) Gina is not solidly bigger like Cris is…
    Last edited by GFC on Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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    Sako
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:07 pm

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    You’re starting make me tired, you just restated everything you just said, didn’t offer any real counterarguments. Why shouldn’t it be Gina’s responsibility as professional fighter to keep herself in shape and make sure she makes weight for her fights? Why shouldn’t Gina be judged by the same standards for not to making weight as Gabe Ruediger?
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:16 pm
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    Sako, i did answer there is no reason why other than she’s not been able to be disciplined for whatever reasons. yes imo she SHOULD be and i agree it should be her responsibility in the position she’s in but she is not obligated to even fight or represent the sport if she chooses not to…and, i or no-one else can force her to get her ass into the gym or regulate her nutrition, we can only try to influence it by emphasizing it to her directly and via these types of media encouragement, etc…

    but plenty (most) fighters have had all sorts of issues whether making weight or whatever, we are all still human beings with various life issues, Gina is no different…
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    scarce
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:13 pm
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    i wonder

    has she ever been exposed to steroids—

    ..not to charge her

    ,,but…has it ever been a question//

    ,,steroids are used for fast muscle build up
    ..for fast healing power…
    …and great strength….

    ..she might qualify on all 3…

    just kidding….LOL))))))))))))..or maybe not.????????????????
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    Sako
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:06 pm

    Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:39 pm
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    scarce wrote:
    i wonder

    has she ever been exposed to steroids—

    ..not to charge her

    ,,but…has it ever been a question//

    ,,steroids are used for fast muscle build up
    ..for fast healing power…
    …and great strength….

    ..she might qualify on all 3…

    just kidding….LOL))))))))))))..or maybe not.????????????????
    I’m sure she got plenty of exposure to steroids on American Gladiators 😉 . She’s the only gladiator that doesn’t look roid up. I don’t know if they have a policy on steroids or anything.
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    Josh Barnett
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:43 pm
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    Sako wrote:
    scarce wrote:
    i wonder

    has she ever been exposed to steroids—

    ..not to charge her

    ,,but…has it ever been a question//

    ,,steroids are used for fast muscle build up
    ..for fast healing power…
    …and great strength….

    ..she might qualify on all 3…

    just kidding….LOL))))))))))))..or maybe not.????????????????
    I’m sure she got plenty of exposure to steroids on American Gladiators 😉 . She’s the only gladiator that doesn’t look roid up. I don’t know if they have a policy on steroids or anything.
    I believe he meant Chris Cyborg.

    As for whether Gladiators on the show take steroids that’s a pretty careless and ignorant to say. You don’t have to take steroids to be muscular, lean or both.

    Josh
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