Women’s MMA “Pound 4 Pound” rankings

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    ShdwPrwler
    Post subject: “Pound 4 Pound” rankings Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:18 am
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    Here is my “P4P” list. This list is based not only by wins/losses, but also by the quality of opponent…..plus, you have to had fought in 2007 to be legible. Comments?

    1 – Tara LaRosa, 14-1
    2 – Megumi Fujii, 11-0
    3 – Amanda Buckner, 11-4
    4 – Yuka Tsuji, 18-1
    5 – Lana Stefanac, 4-0
    6 – Gina Carano, 4-0
    7 – Shayna Baszler, 7-4
    8 – Roxi Modafferi, 11-4
    9 – Julie Kedzie, 8-6
    10 – Kelly Kobald, 16-2-1
    Hi Rikki – I certainly wouldn’t argue with any “Top 10” list that included Lisa Ward. My problem was that I had about 15 or so deserving women and only 10 spots. 😆

    Hi Lisa – I think if you are going to keep a current “Top 10” list, then it has to only include active fighters(fighters who have fought within the last year). Clearly, Debi and Laura D’Auguste would be on everyone’s list, probably in the top 5, had they been fighting recently.

    As far as Tara not being # 1 because she doesn’t dominate her opponents, that’s because ALL her opponents are top level fighters also. No one has fought AND beaten the quality of fighters that she has….Modafferi, Akano, Kedzie, Buckner, Berezekova, Baszler, and Kobold, and that’s just since 2006.
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    satanico
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:59 pm

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    In pound for pound I would give more credit to Modafferi for beating larger 13-1 Coenen (after 2 wins that same night) than Carano for beating smaller 6-5 Kedzie. Stefanac is large and her record is pretty empty. Baszler beat 2 you ranked and is still behind her. If they put her against Carano I think most people who have seen her would choose her to win by sub, which is probably why Carano isn’t fighting her next.
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    Rikki
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:16 pm
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    I don’t know that I would put Stefanac in that list, due to your “quality of opponents” comment (not that there’s anything wrong with those opponents for her experience, just not for a Best P4P list). And I think Lisa Ward should be in there somewhere….probably right where you have Stefanac listed.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:15 pm
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    IMO – in general terms, when figuring true p4p rankings *all* or as many factors as possible should be considered. simply going by records and quality of opposition is not nearly enough. for example, molly’s fight with carina damm being ruled a unanimous decision does not come close to telling the true story of what happened in that fight. so many things can and do happen with records, fighters are robbed of decisions, etc. then some of those bogus losses or close fights which should have been draws end up on a fighters record and effect the accuracy of rankings.

    in addition, it’s not just about getting a “W” it’s also important how the win was gotten. since the objective in any fight being to do as much damage to your opponent while getting the least done to yourself. ring wars are great, but if fighter ‘x’ has very close battles, getting hit a lot, sustaining damage, almost losing, etc…and fighter ‘y’ dominates more (does more damage and sustains less) with common opponents, then that should also be factored into the equation. experience is another, if one fighter has 10 years exp in a particular discipline and gets beat by another with only 1 year exp that says a lot too. there are other factors but i think you get the idea. julie kedzie’s record is also deceiving as she’s had close wars even in her losses, beaten kelly kobald who had a *very* close war with tara, and beat molly twice…yet carano (even with far less experience) was more dominant against julie than other common opponents like tara or amanda…plus, beat rosi who is also up near the top especially in ground and sub skills. so i do rate that high, and of course next sat will tell a lot whether it stays that way.

    and don’t believe there was any particular significance in choosing tonya over shayna as an opponent since tonya is also well experienced in ground, and with gina now working with randy doubt they are concerned about anyone at 135-140 (although still respecting all the other top girls there)…from what i heard shayna was tied up with family obligations all through aug so that would prob leave her tight on training and preparing. do agree about roxi though, particularly her 2 wins against howe and marloes puts her way up there. and rikki, i agree and do have lisa ward on my list, but also think lana should be in the top mix as well…it is not her fault that there are not as many qty fighters at her weight as in the 125’s -135’s to me that doesn’t take away from her dominance/ability level. and regardless of records cris cyborg is an f’n beast in terms of ability, is undefeated and shown complete dominance against quality opponents. unfortunately, as with lana’s situation the higher weight divisions are not as deep yet, but will be.
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    ShdwPrwler
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:35 pm
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    Hi Lisa – I agree with much of what you say, HOWEVER, if there is a fighter out there who has fought AND beaten at least 5 of the other “Top 10” fighters in the world and they aren’t considered # 1……then there is something terribly wrong with how the rankings were picked.
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    derUbermensc
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:01 pm

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    Rather strange ranking
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    ShdwPrwler
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:25 pm
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    Hello “derUbermensc” – Of course, any rankings like these are purely subjective….as you can tell by Lisa and my debate over who’s # 1. 😆 I would be interested in seeing your list though, so by all means, please post it. 🙂
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:22 am
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    shdwprwler, understand where you’re coming from and your point def has merit, i just personally don’t subscribe to that as an absolute. for example, if a given fighter were to beat tara, laura or any other top caliber mma female in a dominating fashion, imo she wouldn’t necessarily need to fight and beat 4 others to be considered p4p better. to me julie and rosi are top caliber and the way gina won (plus the fact that she did it having much less mma experience) puts her right up there, especially when you now add her working with randy into the equation.

    there is no “official undisputed” women’s p4p champion, and it’s tough to really call until tara, gina, laura, debi, and various others at the top finally do fight each other. then it’s even more difficult when you factor in the divisions below and above 135, and new girls who will be transitioning into mma like julia budd…so yeah, for right now any women’s mma p4p ranking list is pretty subjective.
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    Rikki
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:59 am
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    Quote:
    for right now any women’s mma p4p ranking list is pretty subjective.

    Absolutely!
    And just as a side note – I prefer rankings by weight classes. Take LaRosa and Fuji for example, they are both excellent, well-rounded fighters, but are probably never going to fight each other. So Fuji is ranked #2 just because she’s had a shallower talent pool for opponents. That would also solve the Stefanac case.
    People say, “We can’t do women’s rankings by weight because there aren’t enough of them.” So do a ranking with only 6 slots filled in! Eventually there will be enough options to fill up the other 4. *Getting off my soapbox now* 🙂
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    ShdwPrwler
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:16 am
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    Ok then, lets try and rank the “Top 5” in each weight class……starting with the under 125lb class and the 135lb class. As you mentioned, the best part is that with promotions like Bodog and EliteXC now featuring women fighters, chances are these ladies will meet up in the ring/cage at some point and we may actually get to find out who the best really is.

    Under 125lb
    1 – Megumi Fujii
    2 – Yuka Tsuji
    3 – Rosi smile
    4 – Lisa Ward
    5 – Michelli Tavares

    135lb class
    1 – Tara LaRosa
    2 – Amanda Buckner
    3 – Gina Carano
    4 – Shayna Baszler
    5 – Roxi Modafferi

    Comments? 🙂
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    Rosi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:27 am
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    Akano and Hashi should be in there somewhere (isn’t the smackgirl division 128? Could they make 125? Anyone know?). Ward should be somewhere near the top of a 105 listing instead of in with the 125ers. Tsuji doesn’t fight at 125 at all AFAIK, and Gina fights at 140, not 135.

    Herein lies the problem….

    Good to get some discussion going though. If we could get the weight classes standardised, that would be a start, although that seems unlikely to happen any time soon.
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    satanico
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:25 pm

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    Yea how can Carano never make 135 lbs. and be in that class? LaRosa is also #1 at 125 lbs. then.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:29 pm
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    rikki, hey i dig your soapbox and agree… 🙂 am currently revising and will break it down into weight classes (ranges)
    …although, may still do a p4p they are technically more subjective but fun and help generate interest and discussion.

    rosi, akano and hashi are on my list and also agree with you and satanico about the weight and standardization issues.

    shdwprwler, we are not too far off the same page there, although i’ll be adding some more to each class and i think seeing where gina is sat night will hinge my opinion on where she places. also not sure about completely excluding laura and debi for inactivity…they are both still viable top level fighters but i suppose at some point there should be a cutoff, maybe like 18 or 24 months… 💡 ‘s

    for now i’m thinkin it could be something like this with weight ranges:
    below 120

    120-130

    130-140

    145-155

    above 155

    and if anyone floats up or down then sure, i think they could/should be ranked in more than one weight division…
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    Maulinator
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:56 am
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    I don’t think anyone with less than 5 fights should be on a top ten list.

    I agree that it should include active fighters, and caliber of opponents should be taken in consideration. Even though Akano lost her last fight, I think she deserves a spot on there.
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    Rosi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:00 pm
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    I think the standard categories that give the closest fit with the majority of promotions right now would be:

    105, 115, 125, 135, 145, 155+
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:07 pm
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    okay cool, so any ideas on cutoff time for inactivity…12, 9, 6 months?

    and if those are the standard classes i still think there would need to be a 5 lb float on either side at least for rankings, so that would make it look something like:

    100-110 Flyweight

    110-120 Lightweight

    120-130 Welterweight

    130-140 Middleweight

    140-150 Light Heavyweight

    155+ Heavyweight
    and the only dilemma i see with a 5 fight mandatory is that some girls are transitioning, and if they legitimately beat some of the top fighters (even 2 or 3) the caliber of a tara, amanda, gina, roxi, julie, rosi, yourself, etc. then i can’t see how they couldn’t be considered at least ranked….but, if you’re saying they would still need a couple more fights to solidify their ranking, most will still prob have 1 or 2 transitioning level bouts so in those cases 5 seems like a pretty good #…then again, depending on who they beat first.

    so maybe like a 5 fight mandatory *unless* 2 or 3 wins are against top 10 ranked fighters… 😕 call on that one…
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    Jeff
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:14 pm

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    It should take a long period of inactivity before someone gets omitted from a female ranking list. Something in the 2-4 year range would be ideal.
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    Rosi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:42 am
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    GFC – I disagree. If the rankings are to be useful for fighters and promoters in working out who are the top contenders in each weight, then you need to rank AT the most common weight categories, not with a 5lb margin on top.

    If you’re looking for the top contenders for the Bodog 135 title, for example, then you need a list of girls who actually fight at 135.

    Having a margin either side of the weight means you’re going to have girls ranked in the same category who are never going to be able to fight each other – which defeats the purpose of ranking by weight category.

    AFAIK, the only problematic divisions with this approach are the fatal femmes 110 (dominated by Ward, who can legitimately be ranked at 105), smackgirl’s 128 (not sure here – some like Akano seem to go up to 135, but presumably some could fight at 125), and eliteXCs 140.

    But you’re doing the rankings, not me, so it’s up to you 🙂
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:50 am
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    rosi, agreed…the problematic divisions are the only reason i’m using that formula, for now…those are all other major orgs so can’t only consider bodog and not elite xc or the others, at least until it all becomes standardized as you mentioned. i do think promoters can still utilize with a 5 lb margin even if fighters agree to meet half way for single bouts…example say 126.5 or 137.5 if we are splitting hairs…i’d just rather not get into a situation where we are ranking all orgs separately bodog, elite xc, smackgirl, fff, etc…they already do that somewhat through their own tournament structures. so for now to include them all is why i’m using the margin since i see no other reasonable alternative. and i had originally only created an ‘unofficial’ p4p list just for fun, but since there is currently no decent ranking lists might as well develop one, and i think all viewpoints are important, particularly yours and the other veteran female fighters weigh heavily, and should. 🙂

    and dlirag, 4 years is too long for any inactivity cutoff, even 2 years is rough to assess whether a fighter is still active, viable, and conditioned at that point…the entire sport can evolve to new skill levels within that time frame.
    Last edited by GFC on Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:36 am, edited 3 times in total.

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    ShdwPrwler
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:10 am
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    Hi Lisa – I agree that a 2 to 4 year inactive period is too much for a current rankings list…..I’d say 12 months, 18 at the most.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:36 am
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    shdwprwler, agreed…and if 18 months should prob be required to at least stay qualified to prove they are still active in some way, placing in grappling tournaments, something…
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    Maulinator
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:53 pm
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    GFC – if a girl is still in a transition period, then that is where they are at. Not ready for top ten IMO.

    Who’s to say that even if Gina and Lana are 4-0, that someone like myself, Ginelle, Tonya, Adrienna, Tama Chan, Liz even Carina etc… who has more than 5 wins but also some losses – does not deserve a spot more so than someone who has been fighting for less than a year. Do those wins not count for anything?

    I think 12-18 months for an activity cutoff is a good period of time. There are enough fight opportunities now that everyone should have a chance to fight a couple of times a year on average.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:04 pm
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    molly, actually i think it has more to do with who you beat and how you beat them, ‘currently’…

    to me once a girl is fighting and beating top ranked fighters she is no longer in transition (level-wise) and even if she is considered that way it doesn’t matter, since if she’s beating top fighters then she’s obviously ready for the top…plus, beating those top fighters while in “transition” shows even more imo. just as if some male fighter transitions in and starts beating a chuck, randy, or crocop convincingly in their first 4 fights and has zero losses i wouldn’t really consider the fact that dan severn has some 80 career wins and a number of losses as reason for ranking him higher…

    current rankings also should be about current fights and ability levels. a fighter may have had 5 wins way back in the remix or first hns days but i don’t think that really even applies to the level of the game right now. losses should also count against a fighter, so an undefeated fighter doesn’t have that issue or negative factor against their win record. but like i said some of those losses with the girls you mentioned could easily be considered unjust or do not tell the true story, as i feel your fight with carina illustrates. that’s why i think even more important than just going by records and to be the most accurate in rankings it should be more about who’s currently beating who and how well and consistently they are doing it…
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    Maulinator
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:40 pm
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    That’s cool. I actually agree with you. And upon closer examination of the records (specifically opponents and their records) of the original top 10 list on this thread, I still think, even with your reasoning, that maybe that list doesn’t really play out.

    And in that case, I think who you lost to, and how you lost to them should count FOR a fighter too 😛 LOL, just playing devil’s advocate here.

    All in all, the list is subjective. But the point is that it’s great that we can even have a substatial debate about this. There are so many quality fighters in the ranks these days, it’s nice to be able to start thinking about proper rankings.
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    Maulinator
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:56 pm
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    And with that, I have decided to compile my own, unbiased and purely scientifical, personally regulated rendeition of the Women’s 135 class.

    The set of standards I went by:

    A) Only the number of wins primarily counts. Losses don’t get factered in, except in the case someone has the same number of wins, then greater number of losses gets bumped up for experience.
    B) No person that has fought in less than 12 months is qualified.
    C) In the case two people have the same win/loss record, then whoever fought most recently gets the bump.
    D) All nominees included in the list primarily fight in the 135 weight class.
    E) The list is not a popularity contest. It has no reflection of my personal feelings for any person on the list.
    F) Records were pulled from both Sherdog and Full Contact Fighter databases. In the case that the records differed, the more favorable record was pulled for that fighter.

    MOLLY’S LIST OF THE TOP 21 135 POUND FEMALE FIGHTERS

    1) Tama Chan 16-13
    2) Kelly Kobald 16-2-1
    3) Tara LaRosa 14-1
    4) Megumi Yaboushita 13-1
    5) Merloes Coenen 13-2
    6) Yoko Takahashi 12-9
    7) Amanda Buckner 11-4-1
    8 ) Hitomi Akano 11-4
    9) Roxanne Modafferi 11-4
    10) Adrienna Jenkins 11-2
    11) Takayo Hashi 10-1
    12) Julie Kedzie 8-6
    13) Shayna Baszler 7-4
    14) Molly Helsel 6-6-1
    15) Vanessa Porto 6-2-0
    16) Ginelle Marquez 5-6-1
    17) Liz Posener 5-2-1
    18 ) Tonya Evinger 4-2
    19) Jen Case 4-1
    20) Gina Carano 4-0
    21) Cristiana Cyborg 4-0

    😀 Don’t ask me why I picked 21 fighters, that’s just when I got bored of researching. on to the 125 class now….
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:32 pm
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    molly, and to think, from your previous post we were *so* close to being on the same page, until………… 😯 “The List” 😯 …hahaha j/p

    but here’s the good news, with that formula you would make dan severn a very happy camper since it would rank him ahead of fedor and randy…christy martin would also be back on top in women’s boxing so she’d be your newest n bestest friend… 🙂

    the bad news, that was the only good news… 😛

    but seriously, i’ll have the rankings list compiled sometime after the fights this weekend, i’ll post it and we can go through feedback on individual placings and such…also, i use no personal bias in my system, only those factors i mentioned which amount to who is ‘actually’ beating who currently, and how (dominating) they are in comparison to other fights with common opponents (performance level) combined with records, quality of opponents, and wins vs losses.
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    Pankration_MuayThai
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:16 pm
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    who is Cristiane Cyborg?

    who else is in the 5-10 fight range at 135lbs?
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    Josh Barnett
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:55 pm
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    Maulinator wrote:
    And with that, I have decided to compile my own, unbiased and purely scientifical, personally regulated rendeition of the Women’s 135 class.

    The set of standards I went by:

    A) Only the number of wins primarily counts. Losses don’t get factered in, except in the case someone has the same number of wins, then greater number of losses gets bumped up for experience.
    B) No person that has fought in less than 12 months is qualified.
    C) In the case two people have the same win/loss record, then whoever fought most recently gets the bump.
    D) All nominees included in the list primarily fight in the 135 weight class.
    E) The list is not a popularity contest. It has no reflection of my personal feelings for any person on the list.
    F) Records were pulled from both Sherdog and Full Contact Fighter databases. In the case that the records differed, the more favorable record was pulled for that fighter.

    MOLLY’S LIST OF THE TOP 21 135 POUND FEMALE FIGHTERS

    1) Tama Chan 16-13
    2) Kelly Kobald 16-2-1
    3) Tara LaRosa 14-1
    4) Megumi Yaboushita 13-1
    5) Merloes Coenen 13-2
    6) Yoko Takahashi 12-9
    7) Amanda Buckner 11-4-1
    8 ) Hitomi Akano 11-4
    9) Roxanne Modafferi 11-4
    10) Adrienna Jenkins 11-2
    11) Takayo Hashi 10-1
    12) Julie Kedzie 8-6
    13) Shayna Baszler 7-4
    14) Molly Helsel 6-6-1
    15) Vanessa Porto 6-2-0
    16) Ginelle Marquez 5-6-1
    17) Liz Posener 5-2-1
    18 ) Tonya Evinger 4-2
    19) Jen Case 4-1
    20) Gina Carano 4-0
    21) Cristiana Cyborg 4-0

    😀 Don’t ask me why I picked 21 fighters, that’s just when I got bored of researching. on to the 125 class now….

    Actually Ginele is 7-6-1 and funny enough, Shayna is 18-4 overall which would put her at #1! Honestly, I thougt it wqs fun just to see all the different fighters and their records…or as close to their records as most know.

    And Chris Cyborg is like 170 if I am not mistaken.

    Josh
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:58 am
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    actually last i heard cris cyborg (top female fighter in brazil yet to come to the u.s.) was in the 145-155 range ripped but *might* be able to get to 140 (link below)…highly doubt any lower than that without becoming seriously depleted. and thanx for the updates josh that will still put shayna and ginele higher on the list (which they should be imo)

    and btw molly, you forgot laura d’auguste on that list who falls within the 12 mo inactivity limit having last fought nov 06…but, she will be on my list.
    Last edited by GFC on Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:30 am
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    and btw pt 2, just heard about some major issues, but can’t say until after tomorrow cuz i’m not sure if they will be a factor or not…
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    Lisa_Ward
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:52 am
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    Pound for pound? Explain this to me?

    P4P in my opinion is who is dominting their weight class and higher. This is showing their strength to size ratio. “Pound for pound” Right?
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:51 am
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    hi lisa, from what i understand p4p would typically mean who is the most dominant and skilled performance-wise regardless of weight class…not necessarily who can move up and be ranked highest in more than one division…but, that could also be the case…it is more subjective than regular rankings because the fighters cannot ‘usually’ go up against each other in diff weight classes to actually see who is better, and even if they did it would not be a fair situation due to the weight differences (although remix type events did) but were not fair formats imo. hope that helps explain….
    Last edited by GFC on Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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    Maulinator
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:04 am
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    The list, in a way, is all in fun. Just kind of goes to show some of the people with incredible records that might have been left out. And puts things in perspective how it lays out really, record wise. And gives us a list of qualified players to work with.

    Josh, I know Sherdog has my record really messed up, but Shayna’s must be super jacked. That’s why I looked at both databases. I think Cris fights around 140 or so now, which makes her qualified in the same way Gina is qualified to be in 135 class I guess 🙂

    GFC – couldn’t find where Laura fought 11/2006? Last I saw was 8/2006.

    Just thought it was a good idea to establish a list of people who legitimately belong on any top ten list and go from there. My list has no reflection on who i really think should be higher or lower and does not take into account caliber of opponents. I’ll let you guys butcher it from there…..
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:43 am
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    ohhh that’s what that was…cool, let’s get out the hacksaw then. -) i’m just playin around too…like i said was originally doin this for fun and joke around a lot, but at the same time there’s no decent rankings list so what better place to compile one then right here? i think the more people who butcher your, mine, whoever’s (?) lists the better because there will be natural biases.

    i suppose we could get cris a case of pedialite and she might make 140, think gina just needs to layoff the lasagna a few weeks out for a change. 😉 and i think you are correct on laura there were 3 different date listings for the same event: 7/7/06 this one: Laura D’Auguste Win Megumi Yabushita KO (Corner Stoppage) ROC 11 – Ring of Combat 11 11/18/2006 1 5:00…and the one you mentioned in aug…better make sure she wasn’t given 3 wins for 1 fight too. 😆
    Last edited by GFC on Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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    Josh Barnett
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:11 pm
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    Maulinator wrote:
    The list, in a way, is all in fun. Just kind of goes to show some of the people with incredible records that might have been left out. And puts things in perspective how it lays out really, record wise. And gives us a list of qualified players to work with.

    Josh, I know Sherdog has my record really messed up, but Shayna’s must be super jacked. That’s why I looked at both databases. I think Cris fights around 140 or so now, which makes her qualified in the same way Gina is qualified to be in 135 class I guess 🙂

    GFC – couldn’t find where Laura fought 11/2006? Last I saw was 8/2006.

    Just thought it was a good idea to establish a list of people who legitimately belong on any top ten list and go from there. My list has no reflection on who i really think should be higher or lower and does not take into account caliber of opponents. I’ll let you guys butcher it from there…..
    Molly,

    I told Shayna she should write down all of those fights not listed so they could be added to the DB’s. They where in smaller events and as such she doesn’t give them much merit but the fact remains that she trained and stepped in the ring and walked out a winner. Nobody starts out the best in their class. We all have to work our way there and that doesn’t mean any less in my mind.

    Josh
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:31 pm
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    all fights def should have merit but think there’s still a big difference between a fighter coming in and beating a top fighter like chuck liddell now vs a john doe 4 years ago…in cases where all else being equal i could see where the extra wins would act as a tie-breaker. but i mean if some phenomenal kickboxer transitioned into mma and beat fedor and randy convincingly how could they possibly not be ranked higher just because they didn’t need to work their way up? you beat the man (or woman) and you become the man (or woman)….no? a transitioned fighter no matter which discipline they come from has still gone through the process of working their way up to the point where they can defeat the best, so they should still be considered the best (imo)…i think we are just at a crossroads now where mma is growing so much that it is attracting fighters from other disciplines and avenues, but they have still paid their dues in other ways and if they win it should still be respected.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:20 pm
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    ok, starting with…

    current 130-140 lb Top 10 rankings

    1)tie larosa/carano
    2)buckner
    3)baszler
    4)modafferi
    5)kedzie
    6)kobald
    7)akano
    8)porto
    9)evinger
    10)tie marquez/helsel
    this is based on current win to loss ratio, qty of common opponents, and level of performance.

    feel free to ready your own personal hacksaws… 🙂
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    Maulinator
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:01 am
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    OK, let me butcher your list now…

    Didn’t get why Gina was ranked #4 before, especially not tie for #1?!?!? Even under your own rules doesn’t make sense. The only “name” fighter she fought was Rosi, who is a 125’r and has never even been ranked on a 135 list. And that time she again was overweight probably close to 20 pounds heavier than Rosi when they fought.

    Both Porto and Evinger are good fighters and have decent records, but don’t see how they rank that high on the list.
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    Rikki
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:23 am
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    Molly, you are forgetting her win over Julie. But I agree that she doesn’t belong in the #1 spot. I’m thinking #5 (not put a lot of thought into it, though).
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:28 am
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    lol…julie is also a “name” and top ranked who also just beat kelly who recently had a very close war almost beating tara…and, gina was more dominant with julie than tara or amanda were even *before* she was working with randy or had established her ground. she was #4 on shdwprwler list not mine but that was also before the additional win against tonya. gina is the only undefeated fighter and currently most dominant performance-wise in 06-07. it is well deserved imo, but feel she does need to also beat one of the other top 5 (or tara) to solidify being ranked higher than her, so that’s why the tie.

    i did have more trouble with you, ginele, evinger, and porto…but, evinger’s performance and win against ginele, who beat you, and porto beating tonya, plus their win/loss ratio being higher is what made the difference…however, you’re welcome to feel you and ginele should be ranked higher and i agree you would have a good argument for that case.

    Maulinator wrote:
    OK, let me butcher your list now…

    Didn’t get why Gina was ranked #4 before, especially not tie for #1?!?!? Even under your own rules doesn’t make sense. The only “name” fighter she fought was Rosi, who is a 125’r and has never even been ranked on a 135 list. And that time she again was overweight probably close to 20 pounds heavier than Rosi when they fought.

    Both Porto and Evinger are good fighters and have decent records, but don’t see how they rank that high on the list.
    Last edited by GFC on Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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    ShdwPrwler
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:05 am
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    Gina got a nice win on Saturday, but if anything, I think it showed just how much work she still needs to do on her ground game. Tonya is an excellent wrestler with limited submission skills and she had Gina in trouble in the beginning of the fight. I have no doubts that with the BJJ skills that Tara, Amanda, Shayna or Roxi have, they all would have submitted Gina in that same position. So, until Gina’s ground game improves OR until she beats 1 of the “elites” that I mentioned above….my list would be as such:

    1 – Larosa
    2 – Buckner
    3 – Baszler
    4 – Modafferi
    5 – Carano
    6 – Kedzie
    7 – Kobald
    8 – Akano
    9 – Helsel
    10 – Porto
    To Lisa – Both Gina and Tara beat Julie by decision and while I don’t know the scores in the Tara/Julie fight, the scores in the Gina/Julie fight were 30-27, 29-28, 29-28. Now, I’m going to assume the score in the Tara/Julie fight was at worst, similar …..if not, Tara wouldn’t have won! 😆 Therefore, I’d say both victories were equal. Oh, and as for Amanda/Julie…..Amanda submitted Julie in like 30 seconds.
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    Rosi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:13 am
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    Quote:
    lol…julie is a name and top ranked, gina was more dominant with her than tara or amanda were even *before* she was working with randy and had established her ground.
    I don’t think you’re being all that consistent with your criteria here.

    How is a decision win a more “dominant performance” than a first round submission?!? (No disrespect towards Julie, who herself has improved massively since her move to the Jackson camp).

    For comparison LaRosa is 7-0 in 06-07 (six in your top 10), with her most recent four fights all being finishes. Buckner is 4-1, with her only loss being to LaRosa, and three finishes, with four of her opponents ranked in your top 10.

    FWIW, I think maybe Akano should be a little higher. Presumably you’re ranking Hashi at -130 otherwise she should be there too.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:28 am
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    rosi, as i said i’m also considering the fact that gina’s win over julie was before she was with randy and established a ground game, ground is a pretty valuable asset in mma which makes a fighter that much better i’m sure you’ll agree. tara already had ground. and true she was 7-0 in 06-07 but gina got started later.
    and yes i was putting hashi in the 130’s…
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:30 am
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    that’s fine, i disagree and felt gina’s ground performance was excellent, especially since as she stated was in weak condition going in. the only reason tonya got the initial takedown and control was because she said she wanted to throw and so gina waited for her, then tonya changed her game plan and went for the take down. gina was very relaxed and poised on the ground, then made a stellar reversal and sub…those are additional skills i believe make her that much better than when she beat julie, and julie is one of the “elite” girls imo…
    ShdwPrwler wrote:
    Gina got a nice win on Saturday, but if anything, I think it showed just how much work she still needs to do on her ground game. Tonya is an excellent wrestler with limited submission skills and she had Gina in trouble in the beginning of the fight. I have no doubts that with the BJJ skills that Tara, Amanda, Shayna or Roxi have, they all would have submitted Gina in that same position. So, until Gina’s ground game improves OR until she beats 1 of the “elites” that I mentioned above….my list would be as such:

    1 – Larosa
    2 – Buckner
    3 – Baszler
    4 – Modafferi
    5 – Carano
    6 – Kedzie
    7 – Kobald
    8 – Akano
    9 – Helsel
    10 – Porto
    To Lisa – Both Gina and Tara beat Julie by decision and while I don’t know the scores in the Tara/Julie fight, the scores in the Gina/Julie fight were 30-27, 29-28, 29-28. Now, I’m going to assume the score in the Tara/Julie fight was at worst, similar …..if not, Tara wouldn’t have won! 😆 Therefore, I’d say both victories were equal. Oh, and as for Amanda/Julie…..Amanda submitted Julie in like 30 seconds.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:35 am
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    but hey, if that’s the consensus i’ll rank gina lower for now until she beats one of the other elite girls… 😀
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    Rosi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:47 am
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    Quote:
    tara already had ground. and true she was 7-0 in 06-07 but gina got started later.
    uh, yes, that’s the point. Tara should be ranked ahead until Carano catches up. At this point in time LaRosa has accomplished more, as have a number of the other girls on your list.

    Quote:
    especially since as she stated was in weak condition going in. the only reason tonya got the initial takedown and control was because she said she wanted to throw and so gina waited for her, then tonya changed her game plan and went for the take down
    Let me get this straight… you want Carano to have extra credit because (1) she cut a lot of weight (badly), and (2) her opponent didn’t do exactly what she’d told her she was going to? 😯

    This is getting silly. I’m going to make a dignified exit from this discussion while I still can.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:10 pm
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    rosi, it’s understood that some have issues with gina. i never said it wasn’t her fault for cutting weight badly, but yes if i’m considering performance, and if someone comes in weak or injured then yes i would factor that in. and i’m not saying tonya should be faulted for not doing what she said she was, it did get her a nice takedown and no doubt was a wise move… 😉
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    ShdwPrwler
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:10 pm
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    Hi Lisa – To me, your list would carry more weight(no pun intended 😆 ) if Gina was ranked lower.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:13 pm
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    shdwprwler, i just said i would…and that was pretty punny… 😆
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:49 pm
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    (revised)

    130-140 lb Top 10 rankings
    1 – Larosa
    2 – Buckner
    3 – Baszler
    4 – Modafferi
    5 – Carano
    6 – Akano
    7 – Kedzie
    8 – Kobald
    9 – Helsel
    10 – Porto
    ok, better? 😀
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    Rosi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:56 pm
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    My only “issues” are with the rather odd and decidedly lopsided criteria you were applying to the rankings. You are looking for reasons to rank Gina highly, and that seems unfair on the other fighters who’ve achieved far more. Take Modafferi’s recent tournament wins over Yabushita and Coenen (in the same night) for example.

    Now, if I’d wanted to be catty, I’d have commented that you should have called it the 130 – 141.1 lb top 10. But I didn….. oops 😉
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:17 pm
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    😛 @rosi…very cute! hahaha…

    yeah i understand all the issues regarding gina and i’m not just trying to rank her higher to rank her higher. i truly do not believe current rankings should be based on overall accomplishments, but more so on who’s performance level is hot currently…and, who would actually win ‘now’ based on current performance. i believe gina would beat tara more than i believe tara would beat gina, based on all factors (and if she can ever make weight properly lol) but that is just my personal view.
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    Rosi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:35 pm
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    Quote:
    i believe gina would beat tara more than i believe tara would beat gina, based on all factors (and if she can ever make weight properly lol) but that is just my personal view.
    If the fight ever happens, I’d be happy to make you a bet on that 🙂
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:42 pm
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    Rosi wrote:
    If the fight ever happens, I’d be happy to make you a bet on that 🙂

    you got it. 🙂
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    cosmic
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:37 pm

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    Rosi wrote:
    Quote:
    i believe gina would beat tara more than i believe tara would beat gina, based on all factors (and if she can ever make weight properly lol) but that is just my personal view.
    If the fight ever happens, I’d be happy to make you a bet on that 🙂
    well, it would be a great fight no matter who wins. women’s fights are usually always exciting!
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    koolpaw
    Post subject: Rankers of 100-110 Flyweight from Japnese viewPostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:53 am

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    hellllooo, its very interesting topic. 😮

    A Japanese old fan of “Josikaku” (Female MMA) ROBITA san drew a Correlation diagram of fighters of 48kg class, it must be 100-110 Flyweight in this thread. He has posted it on his blog b4. 135lbs class is now focused in U.S. but 48kg class is the hottest class here in Japan.

    ROBITA`s ROOM
    He picked up 12 fighters across several organizations like SmackGirl, DEEP, ZST, SHOOTO, bodogFIGHT, and FFF. 12 fighters are:

    Lisa ward, Satoko Shinashi, hisae Watanebe, MIKU, Su Hi Ham, Mai, Edge,Naoko Omuro,Masako Yoshida, Ikuko Tamada,Misaki Takimoto,Eri Kaneya

    All those fighters would be able to adjust to standard rule of world MMA— allows GnP, 5mins 3 round so they can be called “Elite”.

    I considered ROBITA san`s diagram as kinda “virtual league” of Flyweight.
    To express the diagram numerically, i made spread sheet with google` s service.

    fig.1

    Win=+3 points
    Loss=-1 point
    *Yosida fought against Omuro 2 times and 1-1, so i added 2points for each.

    Ranking from this system should be bellow:
    1. Lisa Ward — 9 points
    2. MIKU — 8 points
    3. Hisae Waanabe –7 points
    4. Su Hi Ham, / Satoko Shinasi/ Mai 5 points tie

    the Original maker ROBITA san agreed with this ranking, at the same time he also mentioned about Naoko Omuro. Some other Japanese may add Edge( young super striker). i would mention about Misaki Takimoto, coz her 3 losses were against Lisa, Miku Shinasi, all top girls.

    Japanese Fighters have to beat Lisa Ward if they want to be the top of the world, or to be called real “queen of Flyweight”, Lisa Ward, the fabulous American fighter should be nominated to pound for pound ranking as representive of Flyweight.

    about 110-120 Lightweight , im still not sure. some of above fighters have fought in this class too, but Megumi Fujii And Yuka Tsuji will be ranked from Japan.

    in addition just for fun:

    I have made another ranking with customized “Molly Helsel method”, i mean “much experiences of fights = much upper rank”. just have added numbers of fight among 12 fighters ROBITA san picked up

    fig.2
    OMG 14 points, Masako Yoshida is the TOP with 9 fights !!!! Masako san is a Super ultra amazing f***g mervelous hard worker ! 😯 oops sorry for my French
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:20 am
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    paw! hehehe…this KICKS ASS! 😀 thanks so much for the help…was having *fits* sorting out the flyweight division. then maybe we can work together on the others in-between. do you think we should we drop a division until it fills up more? like the lightweight div, couldn’t fujii and tsuji also be in the 120-130 range…or, we could adjust the ranges? and hey, with some mild butchering the molly list might work well for an “all-time rankings” list… 😉
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    Rosi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:14 am
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    Quote:
    couldn’t fujii and tsuji also be in the 120-130
    Fuji – yes, Tsuji – no.

    The most useful thing would be to rank all the different divisions, even if some are a bit empty. That’ll give a better idea as to the state of play at present.

    There are some American 115 lbers too who could be thrown into the mix, even though it’s early days. Jessica Aguilar I’m pretty sure has mostly fought at 115, and there are some others who are a bit short on fights so far, but could make the list in future.
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    koolpaw
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:08 am

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    Rosi wrote:
    Fuji – yes, Tsuji – no.
    no for Tsuji? thats why Japanese fans and Tsuji herself have been waiting for the fight ” Mega Megu vs.Tsuji”. it seems Yuka Tsuji, the charisma and the symbol of SmackGirl has been underrated outside Japan, Tsuji wants to fight to prove her ability to the world, i guess and fans too. I have been wondering why mega megu is refusing the fight but after i have read meg`s blog, i think i can understand. Hard to tell what she wrote in this language, but i just felt her feeling… so it may happen , it may not, we`ll see.

    Or was it for classfication Tsuji in 120-130 class?

    oh wait, i remnber Josh wrote on his blog
    “and perhaps a future 125lb title fight in Bodog between MEGA MEGU and Rosi “Doctor Doom” smile!”

    wight will be 125lbs? not 115? Megu-Lisa on bodog was in 115 lbs i remember, Anyway, its another big fight for sure.

    Rosi wrote:
    The most useful thing would be to rank all the different divisions, even if some are a bit empty.
    yeah, thats why i have posted Japanese ranking of 48 kg, You guys and gals have already filled 130-140. Lets list other classes too. Weight Class that GFC has made is fair by now , you can change or combine classes after listing names.

    For 100-110 Flyweight, i name:
    Lisa Ward ,MIKU Hisae Watanabe, Su Hi Ham, Satoko Shinasi,Mai.
    And Lisa should be the top ranker of this class IMO. Any other names for this class from U.S. or UK or maybe from OZ?

    For 110-120 Lightweight:
    Jessica Aguilar from Rosi, Yuka Tsuji from me and most of Japnese fans.

    120-130 Welterweight
    Megumi Fujii,Rosi smile*if their future fight for bodog title will be in 125lbs, but if its at 115, both of them should be moved and ranked in Lightweight.
    Carina Dam?
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    Rosi
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:43 am
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    Quote:
    Or was it for classfication Tsuji in 120-130 class?
    Yes – exactly. There’s no doubt Tsuji should be highly ranked in the 110-120 bracket, but AFAIK she’s never really fought at the higher weight as Fuji does. Fuji should probably be ranked both at 110-120 and 120-130.

    As for me – I can’t comment on any particular fights, but the Bodog division is 125 and that’s the weight I’ll be staying at for the forseeable future.
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    ShdwPrwler
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:12 pm
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    Other then Smackgirls, does any promotion have the smaller weight classes or do most just use “under 125” and regardless whether your 124 or 104, that’s where you fight?
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    koolpaw
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:04 pm

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    Official title of DEEP Female Lightweight is 48kg.(Champion MIKU). Shinashi still keeps SG`s 48kg title, but her actual weight is around 45kg(99.21 lb)

    SHOOTO doesnt make title yet but most of fights have been under 125lb,.In most of cases, they make weight limits for each fight with both fighters agreements. G-SHOOTO even had a fighter of 88lb weigh.

    Pancrase had female division too, and Windy Tomomi`s weight is around 54kg(about 120lb) She is the female fighter of Pancrase-ism

    1 lb = 0.4536 kg
    135 lb = 61.24 kg
    125 lb = 56.7 kg
    120 lb = 54.43 kg
    115 lb = 52.16 kg
    110 lb = 49.9 kg
    105.8 lb = 48 kg

    Here is a data page of average hight/weight in 2006

    According to this page, Average Japanese Female is
    160.8cm tall/ 53kg weigh

    English page top

    FYI, Legendary Japanese fighter Megumi Yabushita fights in 135 lb class,but actually shes much under weigh than that, Shes only 158cm tall.From my experience as a gymnast, Even 160cm(5feet 4inchs) tall male with full muscle on his body cant be over 60kg(132lb)
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    satanico
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:21 pm

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    koolpaw wrote:

    FYI, Legendary Japanese fighter Megumi Yabushita fights in 135 lb class,but actually shes much under weigh than that, Shes only 158cm tall.From my experience as a gymnast, Even 160cm(5feet 4inchs) tall male with full muscle on his body cant be over 60kg(132lb)
    In the ADCC 2005 championships she competed in Over 60 KG (132 LBS) when they also had Under 60 KG (132LBS) division. Maybe she doesn’t like to cut weight? Maybe she wanted to be in a different division than Mega Megu?
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:57 pm
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    okidoke, thanks again rosi it sounds like a good plan. including as much info i think would be best for promoters and everyone else. i was starting with a top 10 but we should prob extend that after the initial lists are completed, no? since as you said there are now many other viable pros and new up-and-comers…

    Rosi wrote:
    Quote:
    couldn’t fujii and tsuji also be in the 120-130
    Fuji – yes, Tsuji – no.

    The most useful thing would be to rank all the different divisions, even if some are a bit empty. That’ll give a better idea as to the state of play at present.

    There are some American 115 lbers too who could be thrown into the mix, even though it’s early days. Jessica Aguilar I’m pretty sure has mostly fought at 115, and there are some others who are a bit short on fights so far, but could make the list in future.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:05 pm
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    yab was/is an amazing fighter (aside from that crap against erin). if we do an “all-time rankings” i think she would be much higher up, and that is a good example of the difference between a current or all-time rankings list. i am an avid studier of fight footage as part of my training regime and caught her phenomenal win over gundarenko in the old remix events, talk about a weight difference!…although, i am not big on same night elimination tourney formats like that. they are not fair tests and should not be allowed anymore (imo)….

    satanico wrote:
    koolpaw wrote:

    FYI, Legendary Japanese fighter Megumi Yabushita fights in 135 lb class,but actually shes much under weigh than that, Shes only 158cm tall.From my experience as a gymnast, Even 160cm(5feet 4inchs) tall male with full muscle on his body cant be over 60kg(132lb)
    In the ADCC 2005 championships she competed in Over 60 KG (132 LBS) when they also had Under 60 KG (132LBS) division. Maybe she doesn’t like to cut weight? Maybe she wanted to be in a different division than Mega Megu?
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    koolpaw
    Post subject: PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:22 pm

    Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:02 pm
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    Location: Japan
    Rosi wrote:
    As for me – I can’t comment on any particular fights, but the Bodog division is 125 and that’s the weight I’ll be staying at for the forseeable future.
    oh, thanx 😀
    Anyways bodog calls female division Fights 135 and 125 by now, so we should consider bodog fighters are basically in 130-140 or 120-130. On the other hands SmackGirl and Tsuji has been making history of 52kg Title (110-120), so i m going to list fighters who mainly fight in bodog to 120-130 if there wasnt any special note from fighters , if their main ring is in Japan, im gonna list them to 110-120 except Mega Meg.

    For 110-120 Lightweight:
    Jessica Aguilar , Yuka Tsuji, Windy Tomomi and
    Michelli Tavares who has been KOed by Tsujii recently, but she gave big impact and srtrong impression to the fan who watched the fight,

    For 120-130 Welterweight :
    Megumi Fujii,Rosi smile, Carina Dam,

    during looking at Sherdog` DB. I found a japanese Fighter from keishyu-kai, who has record of 4 wins straight ariund this class in 2006
    Kanako Takeshita

    My last post about Megumi Yabushita was not exact. She wrote her weight is about 60 kg on her official web page.

    but…. her team mate Yoko Takahashi wrote about her current weight on their Tomoegumi blog after Yabushita`s KickBoxing Fight against SuHi Ham last July( the fight offer came only several days b4 the fight)

    like this:

    ” ATTENTION FOLKS, BIG CORRECTION about Megumi`s weight!
    I have told shes 62kg weigh to the officials b4 the fight and they anounced what i have told. BUT her actual weight at the fight was less than 60kg! maybe 5Xkg around. the Data of her profile was several months old,

    Megumi told me on the ring like ” heeey! im not a such big girl!”

    I should have asked her in advance? ”
    lol, that must be their style, They dont care about weight so much, not to be bothered by strickt weigh-in, dont take win or lose too seriouslly as well, Accept any fight offers they get, fight to have fun and entertain fans.

    Can you belive that Yabushita fought in pro-wrestling on the day she has come back from FFF in U.S.? Not only that, She had 2 KickBoxing fights, 1 SmackGirl Fight and another pro-wrestling fight in Next one month 😯 😯 😯

    Hope you will name other fighters who fight in U.S. organizations like Hook n SHOOt, KOTC
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    Rox21
    Post subject: PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:50 am
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    Wow, long thread. I can’t read all of it at the moment…but I don’t even wanna try and make a ranking. We do need them. I was thinking of basing it on wins, but then like Megumi Yabushita is WAY past her prime, and I had no problem at all with the fight last time.

    So if like I win, per say, I should technically be ranked one up over her, right? So base it on who beat who. or take that into account. I dunno, it’s a tough call, especially for people who haven’t faught each other.

    So, I’ll just fight who I’m told, and aim for the top ranked ones. 🙂
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    Executioner
    Post subject: Re: “Pound 4 Pound” rankingsPostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:16 am

    Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 1:48 pm
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    ShdwPrwler wrote:
    Here is my “P4P” list. This list is based not only by wins/losses, but also by the quality of opponent…..plus, you have to had fought in 2007 to be legible. Comments?

    1 – Tara LaRosa, 14-1
    2 – Megumi Fujii, 11-0
    3 – Amanda Buckner, 11-4
    4 – Yuka Tsuji, 18-1
    5 – Lana Stefanac, 4-0
    6 – Gina Carano, 4-0
    7 – Shayna Baszler, 7-4
    8 – Roxi Modafferi, 11-4
    9 – Julie Kedzie, 8-6
    10 – Kelly Kobald, 16-2-1
    Hi Rikki – I certainly wouldn’t argue with any “Top 10” list that included Lisa Ward. My problem was that I had about 15 or so deserving women and only 10 spots. 😆

    Hi Lisa – I think if you are going to keep a current “Top 10” list, then it has to only include active fighters(fighters who have fought within the last year). Clearly, Debi and Laura D’Auguste would be on everyone’s list, probably in the top 5, had they been fighting recently.

    As far as Tara not being # 1 because she doesn’t dominate her opponents, that’s because ALL her opponents are top level fighters also. No one has fought AND beaten the quality of fighters that she has….Modafferi, Akano, Kedzie, Buckner, Berezekova, Baszler, and Kobold, and that’s just since 2006.
    Nice ranking but you forgot Marloes Coenen 13-2-0 and fought this year on K-Grace, won two fights and lost to Roxy.
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    chad
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:36 am
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    Great topic!! for years I have tried to come up with something to rank the women out there and have scrached my head not knowing really how to rank the women due to top fighters not fighting each other.. Bodog has done a good job by getting the top to fight each other.. I have to say that everyone has a good point and keep it up..

    Chad
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    koolpaw
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:48 pm

    Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:02 pm
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    Location: Japan
    AHHHHH MY BAD ! ❗

    I thought Akano should be in 130-140 Class coz she has fought against Debi, Tara, Molly, Amanda Buckner , and Tama chan , but her title of SmackGirl which was taken by Hashi this month is

    58kg = 127.868112 lb !!!

    So, both Akano and Hashi can be ranked in 120-130 Class !! Especially Hashi should be ranked in 120-130 class not 130-140 coz her main Ring and class is SmackGirl 58kg. Her actual weight at weigh-in the last tiitle fight against Akano was 57.4kg = 126.545338 lb. isnt this fact related with what Rosi said “Hashi at -130” ? Yes Hashi should be ranked at -130, i mean “120-130 Welterweight ” in this thread, and her victory against Akano will make her higher ranking in that class.
    Listen bodogFIGHT, as long as you treat SmackGirl nice and construct good partnership. Your new 125 lb title will have great authority like current 135 class Tara has, With a lot of young and tough competitors otherwise, they will send those good fighters to your organization NEXT to NEXT !!

    So..
    For 120-130 Welterweight :
    Megumi Fujii,Rosi smile, Carina Dam, Takayo Hashi

    This topic will be loooong, but very creative challenge, worth for trying.

    *SmackGirl`s Official name of 58kg title is “middle weight” FYI
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:49 pm
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    paw! good stuff, i’m thinkin for some fighters like akano could be ranked in more than one weight class if they fight enough in both. once we get the lists sorted/compiled let’s all talk about it. and yes yab historically has been impressive, and multiple events in the same day like that is pretty gnarly…the only problem with elim tourneys is if ‘fighter X’ has 2 wars in their prelim bouts and ‘fighter Y’ has 2 relatively easy walkthroughs when they meet in the finals it is not a fair or true test and becomes difficult to accurately calibrate that whole situation. other than that they are cool but i don’t see a way around that issue…

    chad, hey thanks! i think once we get all the blood cleaned up 😆 it will be a very productive and good step, then maybe putting together a nice template for the rankings list and create another kickass section for it on the new site. you’re right tho without fighters actually fighting each other (yet) it becomes a difficult choice between things like overall achievements vs current performance. i think a good example on the men’s side would be what machida is doing, while his overall record has far less fights than most i still think he’s arguably already at or near the top in terms of performance based on all factors…and, along with randy, josh and a few others is a viable threat to fedor even tho being at a lower weight right now.

    executioner, totally agree marloes def belongs way up there on any p4p but since we are breaking things down into divisions think she would fall more into the top of the 140-150’ers…which, i believe will also be growing and heating up shortly.

    rox, the only prob with you “miss thang” is your massively awesome win against marloes, and whether or not a huge win over a naturally larger opponent can ever call for a bump against direct defeats, probably not but if and when a loss is avenged believe it should weigh more heavily as a strong tie-breaker. 😉
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    Rikki
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:35 am
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    GFC, when it comes to Roxanne you not only have to take that “massively awesome” win over Marloes into consideration, but also her TWO wins over the woman who, at the time, was considered by many to be the top female fighter – Jen Howe.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:22 am
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    rikki, yeah it’s a valid point i know…shayna’s holdin on by a sh-wing, tuff call with a direct win involved…good case for a rematch i would think. 🙂

    Rikki wrote:
    GFC, when it comes to Roxanne you not only have to take that “massively awesome” win over Marloes into consideration, but also her TWO wins over the woman who, at the time, was considered by many to be the top female fighter – Jen Howe.
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    Rox21
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:45 pm
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    Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:49 pm
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    oooh kudos 😀 Thanks.

    I’m wondering if Bodog will invite me back.
    It might be cool to fight for EliteXC. I think that’s where Shayna is now…hopefully they can offer me a good deal. I need to set things straight, you know.

    Hey, does anybody know Vanessa Porto? I think she fought Evinger for the right to challenge my FFF belt, but now the promotor is having trouble contacting her.

    Um, I want to fight her in November, so if anybody can get in touch with her, please????
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:09 pm
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    rox, hey either one of those are great matches, vanessa is the sh*t too and based on current performance deserves to be even higher in the rankings imo. here is contact info you can try for her:

    pedro iglesias

    email: pedro-iglesias@bol.com.br

    phone: 14-8133-0852

    website:BTW…Happy Birthday! 😉

    ~Lisa

    Rox21 wrote:
    oooh kudos 😀 Thanks.

    I’m wondering if Bodog will invite me back.
    It might be cool to fight for EliteXC. I think that’s where Shayna is now…hopefully they can offer me a good deal. I need to set things straight, you know.

    Hey, does anybody know Vanessa Porto? I think she fought Evinger for the right to challenge my FFF belt, but now the promotor is having trouble contacting her.

    Um, I want to fight her in November, so if anybody can get in touch with her, please????
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    Rox21
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:37 pm
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    Thanks for the info, Lisa! (Lisa ward?)

    Oops my manager just told me to let the promotor handle it, so I shouldn’t have said anything. Oh well.
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:02 pm
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    rox, nope i’ts lisa from the gfc…just sent you a mssg on your myspace. 🙂

    but no worries…you said the promoter could not get in touch with vanessa so this was only contact info not promotional details…lol

    Rox21 wrote:
    Thanks for the info, Lisa! (Lisa ward?)

    Oops my manager just told me to let the promotor handle it, so I shouldn’t have said anything. Oh well.
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    Rox21
    Post subject: PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:21 pm
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    ok never mind, apparently it’s settled.
    I want to know who else is on the card!
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    GFC
    Post subject: PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:59 am
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    rox, that’s solid! the promoter should have that info too as soon as it’s all finalized…
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